Leaders of the Second World War in the First.

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tigre
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Leaders of the Second World War in the First.

#1

Post by tigre » 21 Apr 2018, 04:57

Hello to all :D; a little about this.......................................

Leaders of the Luftwaffe in WWI.

Bruno Lörzer ended the war with 44 victories, exactly double that of his friend Hermann Göring, remaining in seventh place among the German aces.

Source: http://ingwerapfel.tumblr.com/

Cheers. Raúl M 8-).
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Hermann Göring and Bruno Lörzer, photo taken sometime in 1918 .......................................................
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tigre
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Re: Leaders of the Second World War in the First.

#2

Post by tigre » 14 Sep 2019, 04:18

Hello to all :D; a little more.......................................

Leaders of the NSDAP in WWI.

Source: https://rarehistoricalphotos.com/corpor ... ital-1918/

Cheers. Raúl M 8-).
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Three comrades of the Bavarian Reserve Infantry Regiment 16 (RIR 16); from the left: Ernst Schmidt (shared the passion for painting), Max Amann; AH and Fuchsl.................
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LineDoggie
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Re: Leaders of the Second World War in the First.

#3

Post by LineDoggie » 14 Sep 2019, 05:15

tigre wrote:
21 Apr 2018, 04:57
Hello to all :D; a little about this.......................................

Leaders of the Luftwaffe in WWI.

Bruno Lörzer ended the war with 44 victories, exactly double that of his friend Hermann Göring, remaining in seventh place among the German aces.

Source: http://ingwerapfel.tumblr.com/

Cheers. Raúl M 8-).
Bernard Freyburg of New Zealand was a general in both world wars

So was Douglas MacArthur
"There are two kinds of people who are staying on this beach: those who are dead and those who are going to die. Now let’s get the hell out of here".
Col. George Taylor, 16th Infantry Regiment, Omaha Beach

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tigre
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Re: Leaders of the Second World War in the First.

#4

Post by tigre » 08 Nov 2019, 01:30

Hello to all :D; a little more.......................................

Erwin Jollasse.

Erwin Jollasse, was born in 1892 in far-off Germany. In 1911 when he was 19, the young Jollasse entered the German Army as a Fahnenjunker (Officer Cadet). He intended to make the army his career. Over the next few years he learned his trade and in 1914 he was Section Commander of the 11th Company Reserve Infantry Regiment No 26.

When the Germans invaded France and Belgium in August of that year, the young Leutnant Erwin Jollasse marched with them. He fought at Noyers and Sedan, and as a Company Commander was wounded during the Battle of the Marne. A succession of promotions in the battalion followed, and in 1915 he was the Gas Defence Officer on the staff of 15th Reserve Infantry Division. In April 1916 he transferred to the Fliegertruppe to begin training as an aerial observer.

On 2nd April 1917, Wendroth and Jollasse crashed while taking off in a Rumpler C IV. Jollasse was injured with groin and lung contusions, and a compound strain to his right wrist. He was evacuated to hospital in Germany. Erwin Jollasse recovered from his injuries, and was posted to a Flying School as an instructor. As his injuries affected his flying duties, he returned to the infantry in 1918. In World War II he commanded 9th Panzer Division in Russia and in France.

Source: Above the Trenches. http://samilitaryhistory.org/vol071dd.html
http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Per ... lasseE.htm

Cheers. Raúl M 8-).
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Oberleutnant Erwin Jollasse..................
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Re: Leaders of the Second World War in the First.

#5

Post by Ken S. » 08 Nov 2019, 04:07

I'm working something about Rommel and hope to present it here sometime in the coming weeks.

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Re: Leaders of the Second World War in the First.

#6

Post by Sheldrake » 08 Nov 2019, 10:43

LineDoggie wrote:
14 Sep 2019, 05:15

Bernard Freyburg of New Zealand was a general in both world wars

So was Douglas MacArthur
That is a more interesting post.

Of course all the senior generals served in WW1 They were mostly middle aged men who would have been hyoung men in WW1.

It is much rarer to find someone who had served at a high level in WW1.

Freyberg was promoted Brigadier General aged 28 in 1917 having joined the navy three years earlier. He ended the war as a VC DSO and two bars, six mentions in dispatches. There is a lot more to his story than the m,an who was in command when Crete fell.

Macarthur was nine years older and fourteen years into a military career in 1917.

My American example to compare with Freyberg is Clarence R Huebner who commanded a company, battalion and then a regiment in the 1st US Division, which he would command in WW2 from 1943. Unique to command in the same formation in both world wars.

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Re: Leaders of the Second World War in the First.

#7

Post by The Ibis » 09 Nov 2019, 02:41

LineDoggie wrote:
14 Sep 2019, 05:15
tigre wrote:
21 Apr 2018, 04:57
Hello to all :D; a little about this.......................................

Leaders of the Luftwaffe in WWI.

Bruno Lörzer ended the war with 44 victories, exactly double that of his friend Hermann Göring, remaining in seventh place among the German aces.

Source: http://ingwerapfel.tumblr.com/

Cheers. Raúl M 8-).
Bernard Freyburg of New Zealand was a general in both world wars

So was Douglas MacArthur
And Leslie McNair.
"The secret of managing is to keep the guys who hate you away from the guys who are undecided." - Casey Stengel

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tigre
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Re: Leaders of the Second World War in the First.

#8

Post by tigre » 09 Nov 2019, 03:33

Hello to all :D; my point.....................................
That is a more interesting post.

Of course all the senior generals served in WW1 They were mostly middle aged men who would have been hyoung men in WW1.
As you stated, but is easier, just to said, to find a picture or history about a Brigadier, Colonel or higher in WWI but more difficult to find a picture of a simple junior officer.................so trying to put here some pictures of those "dark" young boys in WWI but later well known in WWII. Cheers. Raúl M 8-).

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Re: Leaders of the Second World War in the First.

#9

Post by Mikko H. » 18 Dec 2019, 17:44

If the Finnish Civil War of 1918 counts as a part of the WWI, C-in-C of the White Finnish Army Gustaf Mannerheim was promoted to general of cavalry (ratsuväenkenraali) in March 1918. Later he was, of course, C-in-C of the Finnish Defense Forces during the WWII as marshal of Finland.

If the Civil War doesn't count, Mannerheim was before the Revolution lieutenant-general and cavalry corps commander in the Russian Army.

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tigre
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Re: Leaders of the Second World War in the First.

#10

Post by tigre » 17 Feb 2020, 01:17

Hello to all :D; a little more.......................................

Leader of the NSDAP in WWI.

Source: https://auction.catawiki.com/kavels/711 ... -1933-2006

Cheers. Raúl M 8-).
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Re: Leaders of the Second World War in the First.

#11

Post by tigre » 29 Nov 2021, 16:29

Hello to all :D; a little more.......................................

Ernst Volckheim (April 11, 1898 - September 1, 1962)

Ernst Volckheim joined the Prussian army as a volunteer in 1915 and was deployed as a lieutenant in 1916. In 1917 he was given command of a machine gun company and served on the Western Front during World War I. In April 1918, Volckheim fought as a member of the imperial tank corps in the first battle of Villers- Bretonneux and won the tank badge of the tank battle (Panzerschlacht). He was seriously wounded shortly before the end of the war.

At the end of the First World War, Volckheim joined the newly founded Reichswehr and served as a lieutenant in the motorized troops. With his transfer to become an inspector of the transport troops in 1923, Volckheim also began his theoretical work on the use of armored vehicles as an element of warfare.

Source: https://www.booklooker.de/B%C3%BCcher/E ... fhGFk01ZZg
https://de.wikibrief.org/wiki/Ernst_Volckheim

Cheers. Raúl M 8-).
Last edited by tigre on 30 Nov 2021, 16:13, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Leaders of the Second World War in the First.

#12

Post by Biber » 29 Nov 2021, 20:00

I wouldn't be so sure that that's a photo of Wolckheim. He's wearing a Prussian pilot's badge not a tank badge.

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Re: Leaders of the Second World War in the First.

#13

Post by Sheldrake » 30 Nov 2021, 11:57

Bernard Law Montgomery probably had one of the best prpearation for command in WW2.

He was a junior officer in 1914 and badly wounded leading a bayonet charge in 1914, and was awarded the Distonguished Service Order. On his recovery he was appointed as the Brigade Major of a Kitcheners' Army brigade - US equivalent is the Regimental XO. My maternal grandfather was a soldier in that brigade 104th. They fought on the Somme in 1916.

This image shows Montgomery with his brigade commander. They would visit the front line battlaions daily.
Image

Montgomery was then appointed as the operations staff officer (SO2 G3) for 33rd division in the battle of Arras April-May 1917. He was then transferred to the Operations Staff SO2 G3 of IX Corps between Summer 1917 and Summer 1918. He ended the war as the SO1 Operations - effectively the chief of Staff of 47th London Division. The second image shows him at the liberation parade in Lille - he is front left with the Minister of Supply Winston Churchill centre bottom.
Image

Compared to his British contemporaries, Montgomery almost alone had spent much of WW2 looking at war from inside a formation Head Quarters. He had expereinced what success and failure looked like across three years of intense combat. The bitter bloody attritional struggles of the Somme, Arras and Passchendaele. The disasters of Spring 1918 when IX Corps was on the receiving end of the Kaiser's offensve. The defeat of the worst the Germans could throow and then the success and victory in the hundred days. He had served under commanders who were profligate with lives and uncaring about difficulties their formations faced. Rawlinson on the Somme and Allenby at Arras. He had seen how battles could be well organised and troops well prepared for battle - under Plumer. He was better equipped than most to deal with the stress of high command in WW2.

I can only think of a handful of other WW2 commanders whose formative WW1 experience was gained in higher formation HQ.
  • Alan Brooke had been an artillery staff officer for 18th Division on the Somme and his expertise is partially credited for their breakthrough on the first day. He then became a senior artillery staff officer for the Canadian Corps and credited as the brains behind their artillery logistics and fireplanning. Maybe this is one point in common that fostered Brooke's patronage of Monty - dispite various incidents.
  • Maitland "Jumbo" Wilson had a similar WW1 career to Montgomery - and also ended up as a senior commander in WW2.
  • George S Marshall was a senior operations officer within Pershing's HQ in the AEF.
  • Douglas Macarthur had ocommanded a brigade in 1918.


Some of the senior Germans had a similar staff experience. Rommel had a fine reputation as an aggressive and opportunistic junior fighting commander.
  • Gerd von Rundstedt was a staff officer throughout WW1 for divisions then corps .
  • Erich von Manstein served as a staff officer at Army, Corps and diviisonal levels. He was on von Below's and Lossburg's staff
  • Albert Kesselring started WW1 as a regimental officer, and was decorated for his actions halting the British attack at Arras in 1917 - maybe Montgomery's division? Then becomes a divisional and then corps staff officer.
The French high command of 1940 were well attuned to warfare of 1918. Maurice Gamelin had been one of Joffre's operations staff officers and commanded the 11th Infanrry Division from 1917 to the end of the wwar Maxime Weygand was Foch's senior staff officer in WW1. But I suspect their WW1 experince may have hindered their understanding of how war had changed.

The experience of staff appointmnets may sound trivial and less important than heroic achievements as a junior commander. However, it must have helped to read a battle from two ro three sgaes removed from the front line. Montgomery was immune to the sort of panics that seemed to afflict some US WW2 Generals over e.g the cancellation of the assults on Salerno and Omaha Beach. One big lesson from the WW1 attles is that it was very difficult to tell success from failure at an early stage in any battle.

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Re: Leaders of the Second World War in the First.

#14

Post by tigre » 30 Nov 2021, 13:49

Hello Biber :D;
I wouldn't be so sure that that's a photo of Wolckheim. He's wearing a Prussian pilot's badge not a tank badge.
It would be nice to know who is who. Thanks for your complement Sheldrake :wink:. Cheers. Raúl M 8-).

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Re: Leaders of the Second World War in the First.

#15

Post by Biber » 30 Nov 2021, 16:06

tigre wrote:
30 Nov 2021, 13:49
Hello Biber :D;
I wouldn't be so sure that that's a photo of Wolckheim. He's wearing a Prussian pilot's badge not a tank badge.
It would be nice to know who is who. ...
I consulted the resources over at the Aerodrome forum and it seems that the gentleman in the foto you posted is actually the WWI ace Josef Jacobs: http://www.theaerodrome.com/aces/germany/jacobs.php

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