Need Help Identifying mystery helmet!
- Volkssturmman
- Member
- Posts: 16
- Joined: 04 Apr 2006, 01:17
- Location: United States
Need Help Identifying mystery helmet!
I need some help identifying a helmet. Today I was watching the third volume of my WW1 box set. When they began showing footage of the American offensive at the Argonne Forest, I noticed something odd about the American soldiers. I noticed an American medic wearing a German style helmet, but when I looked closer, it didn’t resemble the regular M16 and M18 style helmets used by the German Army. On further inspection, I noticed it had a rounder shaped and the back rim was extremely thin compared to any other German helmet in service at the time. Could these be a prototype or factory defect? I previously posted about another unknown helmet and was told it was simple a covering. But I can from this photo, there is no covering, it is in its true shape. If anyone can help identify it, answers would be appreciated. Thank you very much.
- Attachments
-
- Helmets.JPG (14.46 KiB) Viewed 4095 times
-
- DSC05857.JPG (156.27 KiB) Viewed 4096 times
-
- DSC05854.JPG (119.73 KiB) Viewed 4096 times
- ErichKiesan
- Member
- Posts: 6
- Joined: 08 Oct 2004, 20:00
- Location: Kansas
It is the US Model 5 helmet - see http://www.nyc-techwriters.com/militari ... elmets.htm
The soldiers in the photo is American, and the helmet was tested in limited numbers on the western front in 1918.
The soldiers in the photo is American, and the helmet was tested in limited numbers on the western front in 1918.
American? The uniforms and cartridge pouches look Austrian, other than the lace bars on the collar, where the rank insignia and arm of service would normally be displayed.ErichKiesan wrote:It is the US Model 5 helmet - see http://www.nyc-techwriters.com/militari ... elmets.htm
The soldiers in the photo is American, and the helmet was tested in limited numbers on the western front in 1918.
- ErichKiesan
- Member
- Posts: 6
- Joined: 08 Oct 2004, 20:00
- Location: Kansas
He meant the first photo, of the US Army in the Argonne (with medical corpsman wearing the US Model 5 helmet - very similar to, but not identical with the Swiss M1918 helmet).Animal wrote:American? The uniforms and cartridge pouches look Austrian, other than the lace bars on the collar, where the rank insignia and arm of service would normally be displayed.ErichKiesan wrote:It is the US Model 5 helmet - see http://www.nyc-techwriters.com/militari ... elmets.htm
The soldiers in the photo is American, and the helmet was tested in limited numbers on the western front in 1918.
Erich
- Sewer King
- Member
- Posts: 1711
- Joined: 18 Feb 2004, 05:35
- Location: northern Virginia
Agreed, this is the Experimental No. 5 helmet.
As described in America's Munitions, 1917-1918: Report of Benedict Croswell, Assistant Secretary of War, Director of Munitions. (Washington, DC: US Government Printing Office, 1919), pages 225-226:
"Helmet No. 5 was strongly recommended by the American experts, but was not accepted by the General Staff. It was designed by the armor committee at the [New York] Metropolitan Museum of Art in conjunction with the Engineering DIvision of the [US Army] Ordnance Department. Hale & Kilburn undertook to manufacture these helmets, which were to be painted, assembled, and packed by the Ford Motor Co., at its Philadelphia plant. Various component parts of the helmet were sublet in experimental quantities to numerous manufacturers.
"The No. 5 helmet, complete, weighed 2 pounds, 6 1/2 ounces. It combined the virtues of several types of [other] helmets. It gave a maximum of protection for its weight. It was comparatively easy to produce [compared to Helmets Nos. 3 and 4]. This helmet, with slight variations, was later adopted as the standard helmet of the Swiss Army. The latest German helmet, it is interesting to note, was approaching similar lines."
The "latest German helmet" I took to be the Model 1917(?) where the shell slopes almost straight down to the brim.
There is another book by Bashford Dean, the very armor historian at the New York Metropolitan Museum of Art who pioneered the helmet designs described above. It's surprisingly fairly available in reprint -- A History of Helmets and Body Armor in Modern Warfare, originally published in 1920. Like much of my library, my copy is packed away at the moment so I can't look up any further detail about Helmet No. 5, but there is a lot already here.
As described in America's Munitions, 1917-1918: Report of Benedict Croswell, Assistant Secretary of War, Director of Munitions. (Washington, DC: US Government Printing Office, 1919), pages 225-226:
"Helmet No. 5 was strongly recommended by the American experts, but was not accepted by the General Staff. It was designed by the armor committee at the [New York] Metropolitan Museum of Art in conjunction with the Engineering DIvision of the [US Army] Ordnance Department. Hale & Kilburn undertook to manufacture these helmets, which were to be painted, assembled, and packed by the Ford Motor Co., at its Philadelphia plant. Various component parts of the helmet were sublet in experimental quantities to numerous manufacturers.
"The No. 5 helmet, complete, weighed 2 pounds, 6 1/2 ounces. It combined the virtues of several types of [other] helmets. It gave a maximum of protection for its weight. It was comparatively easy to produce [compared to Helmets Nos. 3 and 4]. This helmet, with slight variations, was later adopted as the standard helmet of the Swiss Army. The latest German helmet, it is interesting to note, was approaching similar lines."
As explained above, but I always assumed that the shell was virtually the same and that the "slight variations" were in the liner or chinstrap. In fact I am a little surprised that the No. 5 seemed to use a "German-style" leather suspension with three pads. Compare it to the knitted twine suspension of the standard US WW1 helmet and the need to conserve leather at the time.EricKiesan wrote:... the US Model 5 helmet - very similar to, but not identical with the Swiss M1918 helmet.
The "latest German helmet" I took to be the Model 1917(?) where the shell slopes almost straight down to the brim.
There is another book by Bashford Dean, the very armor historian at the New York Metropolitan Museum of Art who pioneered the helmet designs described above. It's surprisingly fairly available in reprint -- A History of Helmets and Body Armor in Modern Warfare, originally published in 1920. Like much of my library, my copy is packed away at the moment so I can't look up any further detail about Helmet No. 5, but there is a lot already here.
Re: Need Help Identifying mystery helmet!
Some US Experimental Helmets here
From gunboards forum.
From gunboards forum.
- Attachments
-
- ww1helmets.jpg (99.88 KiB) Viewed 3102 times
Re: Need Help Identifying mystery helmet!
M18 Swiss Helmet
- Attachments
-
- M18 Swiss Helmet.jpg (28.37 KiB) Viewed 2413 times
Re: Need Help Identifying mystery helmet!
I can't believe the Americans seriously considered helmets with visors! Incredible....they look medieval.
Re: Need Help Identifying mystery helmet!
The sole surviving example of Prototype No 8 is at the Fort George G. Meade Museum in Maryland.
Regards, Marc
www.wfa-eastcoast.org
Regards, Marc
www.wfa-eastcoast.org
- Attachments
-
- Prototype Helmet No 8.jpg (27.42 KiB) Viewed 2400 times
Re: Need Help Identifying mystery helmet!
The 2 in the middle in second row and the one on the left of the bottom row look like they might've been the inspiration for the M40 Soviet helmet and/or the M34 Italian helmet, and the one on the right of that row looks like it may have helped inspire the M1935 Czechoslovakian helmet.Peter H wrote:Some US Experimental Helmets here
From gunboards forum.
Re: Need Help Identifying mystery helmet!
hi Peter H. , I'm about to finish a book on WW1 helmets, would you be so kind to send me or post a copy ofe the photo of the two Austrian soldiers for that use? cheers. Matt