Schneider WWI guns

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Sturm78
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Schneider WWI guns

Post by Sturm78 » 08 Nov 2013 20:56

Hi all,

I have found many images of Schneider guns from WW1 era, but it is very difficult to find information about these guns.
Does anyone have information on the specifications of each of these guns and if they were adopted by any country?

It would be very interesting to get a complete list of all the guns developed by Schneider at this time

Three first images: (mountain artillery)

Image 1: 75mm Schneider MPC4
Image 2: 75mm Schneider MPD
Image 3: 75mm Schneider MPD

Images from delcampe.net
Thanks in advance. Sturm78
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Ruhrpottpreusse
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Re: Schneider WWI guns

Post by Ruhrpottpreusse » 09 Nov 2013 06:10

Hi sturm78
In my sources I have the following french Schneider 75mm (in brackets the countries, who used them):
1) Canon 75mm M.1897 (France and allies)
2) Canon 75mm M.904 (Portugal)
3) Canon 75mm M05 (Bulgaria)
4) Canon 75mm M06, Spain, Greece)
5) Canon 75mm, M7 p.D.M. (Serbia)
6) Canon 75mm, M1912 (France, Serbia)
6) Canon 75mm, M.22 (Finland) - postwar

Schneider buolt different types of mountain guns:
7) Mountain-gun 65mm M.06 (France, Poland)
8) Mountain-gun 7cm M/1907 (Portugal)
9) Mountain-gun 7cm M07 (Serbia)
10) Mountain-gun 7cm M.08 (Spain, Italy)
11) Mountain-gun 7,5cm M.07 (Bulgaria)
12) Mountain-gun 7,5cm MD (Turkey)
13) Mountain-gun 7,5cm M.06/09 (Greece)
14) Mountain-gun 7,6cm M.09 (Russia, Finland)
15) Mountain-gun 7,5cm M.19 (France, Greece, Poland) postwar
16) Mountain-howitzer 10,5cm M.09 (Russia)
17) Mountain-howitzer 10,5cm m.19 (France, Spain) postwar

Source:
Franz Kosar: Artillerie im 20. Jahrhundert (ISBN 3-7637-6249-3) GERMAN language!

CharlieC
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Re: Schneider WWI guns

Post by CharlieC » 09 Nov 2013 12:57

Turkey acquired 52 Schneider PD07s by intercepting one of the shipments intended for Serbia in 1912 - the Schneider guns were taken on strength in the Ottoman Army and served throughout WW1 since they used the same size ammunition as the 75mm Krupp export gun. There are a tiny number of survivors of these guns - perhaps 2 in Iraq and 1 in North Queensland (captured in Palestine in 1918).

The famous Mle 1897 was not a Schneider gun - it was developed in the State Arsenals. If you want to define a manufacturer for
the Mle 1897 then "Puteaux" is reasonable. The Schneider 75mm field gun wasn't built until 1902 and it used different sized ammunition to the Schneider.

Turkey bought 108 7,5cm L/16,7 Schneider-Canet GbK MD2 T in 1908 (GbK - Gebirgskanone)

The 65mm mountain gun was the "Canon de Montagne de 65mm Schneider Modèle 1906" sometimes called the Schneider-Ducrest
more at:
http://landships.info/landships/artille ... _1906.html

Regards,

Charlie

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Manuferey
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Re: Schneider WWI guns

Post by Manuferey » 09 Nov 2013 15:23

CharlieC wrote:The famous Mle 1897 was not a Schneider gun - it was developed in the State Arsenals. If you want to define a manufacturer for the Mle 1897 then "Puteaux" is reasonable. [...]
Charlie
The more complete name of this state arsenal was "Ateliers de Puteaux" (Puteaux's workshops), sometimes shortened as APX e.g. for the turrets of French tanks before WW2. Similarly, there was another state arsenal called "Ateliers des Moulineaux" that shortened as AMX (e.g. French tanks AMX 40 in 1940, AMX 13 and AMX 30 in the 60's).

Emmanuel

Sturm78
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Re: Schneider WWI guns

Post by Sturm78 » 09 Nov 2013 19:26

Thank you for your answers, Ruhrpottpreusse and Charlie.

I think that the names on your list are those used by the user countries.
It would be interesting to know the Schneider company's internal designation.

Do you have images of these diferent guns to distinguish the different models?

Here, two images of an 105mm mountain howitzer. Does anyone know his Schneider comercial designation?
Was this howitzer bought by any country?


Images from delcampe.net
Sturm78
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Manuferey
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Re: Schneider WWI guns

Post by Manuferey » 09 Nov 2013 21:09

Ruhrpottpreusse wrote: 1) Canon 75mm M.1897 (France and allies)
I hope that Guy François/ALVF can help us with this subject. Rereading one of his posts on a French forum, Guy François stated that the Schneider Company started using alphanumerical designations around 1902 for its 75 mm guns e.g. PR, PD7, MPC, ... However, to complicate the matter, Schneider used year designations before 1902 such as 1897 and 1899. Therefore, there was indeed a 75 mm Mle 1897 Schneider, but totally different from the famous “75” Mle 1897 of WW1 and not adopted by the French Army. 8O

Emmanuel

CharlieC
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Re: Schneider WWI guns

Post by CharlieC » 10 Nov 2013 00:16

According to Kosar's book (already cited) the 105mm Schneider mountain gun was produced for Russia.

More data:

The Rumanian Army received 142 Schneider mountain guns in 1919 - these were Putilov licence-built 76.2mm calibre guns.
The models they received were the Putilov built Schneider-Danglis M06/09 and some Schneider M02/04. The Putilov-Schneider guns were converted to 75mm in 1930.

Quoted data for the 76.2mm Putilov-Schneider M06/09

Transport weight: 1225 kg
Emplaced weight: 627 kg
Muzzle velocity: 387 m/s
Projectile: 76,2 x191 mm
Elevation: - 6° la +28°
Traverse: 5°
Max. Range: 8.550 m

Source: "ARTILERIA ROMÂNÃ ÎN DATE aI IMAGINI" - Adrian STROEA and Gheorghe BÃJENARU

It's going to be a difficult task to sort out the Schneider mountain guns there were so many types and many were produced under
license in other countries.

Regards,

Charlie
Putilov-Schneider_M02_04.jpg
Putilov-Schneider_M06_09.jpg
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Last edited by CharlieC on 10 Nov 2013 02:21, edited 1 time in total.

ltcolonel
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Re: Schneider WWI guns

Post by ltcolonel » 10 Nov 2013 01:00

Bulgarina gun was 75 mm M 04 (75 mm Schneider PR) not 75 mm M 05. Serbina guns: 75 mm M 07 (75 mm Schneider PD6) and 75 mm M 07A (75 mm Schneider PD6bis). Serbian Army received Schneider M 1912 on the Salonika Front in 1916 and later.

Sturm78
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Re: Schneider WWI guns

Post by Sturm78 » 10 Nov 2013 19:07

Hi all,

About the mountain artillery in 75mm caliber we have:

75mm Schneider-Canet M1907 MC2 guns for Bulgaria : ?? bought
70mm Schneider M1908 ??? guns for Spain built by Trubia (at least 177)
75mm Schneider-Canet M1911 MD2T3 guns for Turkey :75 bought
75mm Schneider-Danglis M1906 MPD ? guns in use with Greece (as M1908) : 48 bought
76.2mm Schneider-Danglis M1909 ??? guns for Russia built by Putilov (400) and Schneider. Also used by Romania (142) . Does somebody know which country to sell these guns to Romania? Russia or France


Any additional information and/or image will be wellcome

Regards Sturm78

CharlieC
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Re: Schneider WWI guns

Post by CharlieC » 10 Nov 2013 22:23

My apologies - the source was in the book on Rumanian artillery - the Putilov-Schneider moutain guns came from Russia

Another user of Schneider mountain guns was Greece - a line from Marco Pellerini's Bulgarian Artillery website - Greek inventory
at the start of WW1.

"98 mountain guns (Schneider-Danglis 75mm L/16.7 QF M. 1906 and M. 1912 and ex Turkish Krupp 75mm L/14 QF mod. 1904)"

The Greeks also received mountain guns from France after WW1 - something over 100 65mm Schneider-Ducrest guns.

Regards,

Charlie

ltcolonel
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Re: Schneider WWI guns

Post by ltcolonel » 11 Nov 2013 01:15

About 1st November 1914 the Serbian army from France received 2 batteries Schneider-Danglis mountain guns that are made for Greece. This was done with the consent of the Greek government. Around this time, or maybe a month later, were delivered and 3 or 4 batteries of field guns Schneider from the Greek (or Spanish) contingent.

Sturm78
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Re: Schneider WWI guns

Post by Sturm78 » 11 Nov 2013 15:12

Hi all,

Three images of 75mm Schneider M1907 (MC2) bulgarian mountain guns (from http://www.bulgariartillery.it).
Note the S-shaped shield as the Russian mountain guns

Sturm78
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Sturm78
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Re: Schneider WWI guns

Post by Sturm78 » 11 Nov 2013 15:30

Hi all, again

...and three more images from http://www.bulgarianartillry.it and the net:

Image 1: 75mm Schneider-Danglis M1908 MPD Greek mountain gun (or M1906 or M1912). Does somebody the exact designation of these greek guns? :?
Image 2: 75mm Schneider-Canet M1911 MD2T3 turkish mountain gun
Image 3: 76.2mm M1909 Schneider-Putilov Russian mountain gun. Schneider designation ?? :?

All these models were very similar in general appearance. :?

Sturm78
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Sturm78
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Re: Schneider WWI guns

Post by Sturm78 » 13 Nov 2013 23:15

Hi all,

Three more images of Schneider artillery guns:

Image 1: 120mm Schneider OC nº.2 howitzer for Bulgaria (M1909, 36 bought and delivered plus other order for 44, not delivered and confiscated by France) and Serbia (very similar 120mm Schneider howitzer, model OC nº6 as M1910: 24 bought)
Image 2: 155mm Schneider gun ?? model
Image 3: 150mm Schneider OC nº.5 howitzer for Serbia (M1910, 8 bought) and Romania (M1912, 16 bought but only 8 delivered)


Sturm78
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CharlieC
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Re: Schneider WWI guns

Post by CharlieC » 14 Nov 2013 12:42

The second image of the 155mm Schneider gun is a "Canon de 155 L modele 1877-1914 de Bange sur affut Schneider"

It's the barrel of an Mle 1877 De Bange gun on a Schneider carriage. About 120 of these guns were ordered and entered service in 1916.

Regards,

Charlie

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