German Hydroglider

[jluetjen]

I was just reading about Operation Albion, and there is a brief mention of a failed torpedo attack on some Russian ships using hydroglider, under the command of Oberleutnant zur See Peytsch.

I looked online and couldn't find any reference to this vehicle. Does anyone have some information on the vehicle, or picture(s)?

[Waleed Y. Majeed]

Might be this experimental vessel
http://www.doppeladler.com/kuk/gleitboot.htm

Waleed

[Ironmachine]

Might be this experimental vessel
http://www.doppeladler.com/kuk/gleitboot.htm

I don't think that vessel is the hydroglider. There is a very brief description of the hydroglider in Gary Staff's Battle of the Baltic Islans 1917 - Triumph of the Imperial German Navy and, if accurate, it certainly seems to talk about a very different type of vessel:

After the failure of the torpedo-bombers it was decided to dispatch a hydroglider, under the command of Oberleutnant zur See Peytsch, to attack one of the steamers. The hydroglider was a small light craft, weighing just a few tonnes with a crew of three, and powered by 2 or 3 aero engines driving aero propellers. It was armed with a single torpedo. On 24 August Peytsch had sunk the transport Penelope with a torpedo in almost the same position. On 10 October at 1500hrs, the hydroglider put to sea from Windau and took course northeast along the coast, intending to conduct the attack in the evening twilight. The boat steered to Michaelsturm and from there took course through the mined area toward the roadstead off Mento. About 1718hrs the battery at Michaelsturm observed the boat traveling on a northeast course, but just a few moments later, at 1727hrs, the battery at Gross Irben observed a heavy detonation and bright flash, where just previously the hydroglider had been. The boat did not return and was probably destroyed by either a shallow positioned mine or an internal explosion.

However, in German S-Boats in Action in the Second World War by Hans Frank we can see what follows:

The German development followed a different path. Not unitl the summer of 1916 were small, fast torpedo carriers for use against Russian naval forces in the Baltic Islands region.
The first six boats were built in 1917 at the Lürssen, Naglo and Oertz yards. They displaced around seven tonnes, were sixteen metres long and with their three Zeppelin airship engines could make thirty knots. Designated LM 1 to LM 6 (LM standing for Luftschiff-Motor), the first four boats were equipped with net cutters; the other two each had a torpedo tube.
After inclusion in the Motor Launch Division, the boats were attached to Naval Corps Flanders. Several skirmishes off the coast of Flanders resulted in only a single success. Later in the Baltic, on 24 August 1917, the 1,200-gross-ton Russian minelayer Penelope was sunk by them in the Irben Strait off the Baltic Islands.

Though the descriptions from both books are compatible (even if only because they are quite vague), the last book seems to be describing a conventional vessel that would not merit the "hydroglider" name; in particular the lack of any reference to aerial propellers is remarkable, as they would be a very distinctive feature.
Well, that's all I can add for now. Hope it helps.

[jluetjen]

It was the account in Gary Staff's book that I read. Here's a quick translation of the page that Waleed referenced:

The trial gliding boat system Thomamühl
... and his heirsThe trial gliding boat system Thomamühl
... and his heirs

the pilot glider.
 
The pilot glider at full speed.
On September 2, 1915, the world's first fully operational hovercraft set sail. It was designed by the ingenious Austrian inventor - and member of the k.u.k. Kriegsmarine - Dagobert Müller developed by Thomamühl. The design was intended as a "fast torpedo carrier", similar to the later successful Italian MAS boats. But well over 30 knots, the experimental glider was much faster. This speed was achieved by a total of five aircraft engines - with four propelled the two screws and the fifth air blew under the hull.


The main armament were two 35cm torpedoes.
After extensive test drives, the project was finally discontinued in 1917 for reasons that were not really comprehensible - allegedly too little load capacity, use only on slippery seas, too unprotected, etc. Also, the aviation troop demanded their valuable engines back because they did not want to buy them. A likely success to future development has been omitted - although the underlying concept was rated as promising. The MAS showed a little later, that also small unprotected boats, which can operate only in light swell, give usable results. The inventor suffered a typical Austrian fate.

Technical specifications
Type test ship for a fast torpedo carrier.
Shipyard Seearsenal Pola
 

Dimensions length: 13 m; Width: 4 m
Displacement about 6.5 t
Drive system 2 shafts
4x aircraft engines with 6 cylinders each
and 120 hp
1x aircraft engine with 4 cylinders / 65 hp as a ventilation engine for the lift
Maximum speed 32.6 knots in shallow water
Crew 5 men
Armament 2x torpedoes 45 cm
1x MG Black lots
3x water bombs 6kg against submarines
      preset to 5/10 / 15m

Dagobert Müller von Thomamühl.
  Corvette Captain of k.u.k. Navy. The pilot glider was designed by him. But there are also two other important developments:
the air torpedo: air torpedoes were tested under it already at the end of the 1st World War. During World War II they were used very successfully by the Japanese and the British.
the light barrier. How it is still used today as a switching and locating tool. He developed it as a protective system for Pola to discover invading boats. After World War I perfected together with Zeis, the system was procured a little later by the Yugoslav Navy.

the data sheet.

About the experimental glider I have published a data sheet under the label "The Modeller". It consists of 8 pages with:
  Information about the project and
     about his inventor.
  well-known and rare shots.
  Plans in 1:72 scale and 1:48 - by
     made to me according to the original plans
     from the war archive!
Due to its relatively simple hull shape, the test glider is ideal for self-construction.
You can order the data sheet at http://themodeller.toegels.at.

It looks to be of similar concept, but a different project. An interesting mystery!

[jluetjen]

I found this account of Overleutnant zur See Peytsch in "Auf See unbesiegt: 30 Einzeldarstellungen aus dem Seekrieg" (Undefeated at sea: 30 individual portraits from the Seekrieg) which adds a little more information, including about the earlier attack by Peytsch.

Soon, the German warfare offered a new object of attack. The airmen, on their many flights against the enemy airfields and air bases on Gsel, had learned that the Russians did not bring their mines from Ahrensburg, the capital of Hsels, as was first assumed, but that they, like us, intended their immediate use Mines were stored on a suitable trading ship under the south coast of Osel near Zerel. This mine-bearing ship, of course, was a thorn in the side of German warfare; his and his charge complete destruction became a major feature on the program of the armed forces of the Irbenstraße with the announcement of his place of abode. But how should this be done? The south coast of Gsels was about 30 km away from our north coast and the whole area in between was contaminated with mines, nets etc. A complete destruction of the valuable object by air raids seemed hardly possible, here had to be packed sharper. The German warfare was not at a loss for a means. One had at that time so-called remote control boats (Fernlenkboote) in testing, also for Libau and the Irbenstrasse such vehicles were intended. These very shallow boats at breakneck speed, with their bow filled with explosives, were to be directed by electric current either from the racks or even from an airplane and brought to the target. When hitting the target, the bowload should detonate and inflict a deadly hole on the enemy. If you could not use this weapon in the manner described above for the present case - it was not quite ready for the attack yet - you used your boat type. They had such a speedboat rebuilt so that it could take a torpedo instead of the bowload - embedded in the boat body - renounced the Fernlenkeinrichtung (remote controls) and replaced it with the cutting of a young Torpedöbootsoffiziers who took over the steering of the boat itself the steering. Apart from him, another man was required to operate the engine, while the 'disengaging' of the torpedo had to be carried out by the driver of the boat, Peytsch, that young lieutenant on the sea, who was appointed commander-in-chief of the 'rapid cruiser' described , settled with this soon after completion of the test drives to Windau, to catch up with the right weather for the decisive blow. His great calm, his self-confidence and his willingness to fight made him particularly suitable for this difficult task. And so on a slightly hazy August night he raced straight for his goal. With grass you have to designate the movement of the boat, because it moves forward at a speed that makes the occupants in the truest sense of the word hear and see. Already at the moment of cranking the engine, it takes on an enormous speed at the moment, and it has happened several times that the brave helmsman suddenly found himself behind his boat in the water due to his persistence and was reminded too clearly of its original character as a "remote" steering boat That night the daring leader of the boat was happy, and less than half an hour after his departure from Windau, a mighty detonation cloud with intense firelight, eerily beautiful in the dark, proclaimed that Peytsch had taught the historic "Ram, saw and won" After half an hour, faithful ramblers expressed their enthusiasm in Windau. And indeed, one had to be proud of him! It was therefore a grief carried with pride, when the daring sailor, with his faithful, no less intrepid companion, soon afterwards on occasion fell victim to a similar undertaking of an insidious mine, and a glaring firelight announced as a blazing torch to the fighters on the North-Bohemian rims that two of their best ramming companions had made their entry into Valhalla.

So it sounds like the crafts...
- Had a 3 person crew - captain, engine mechanic and torpedo-mate
- Very shallow draft
- Originally designed to be controlled by remote control, potentially from an aircraft
- Originally designed to be rammed into target, but the redesigned to drop a torpedo off the bow.
- Significantly faster than boats of the period
- Had a significant "power to weight" ratio for the time.

Doing a search on "Fernlenkboote WW1" brought me to this picture:

with the caption:"WWI cable-controlled explosive Fernlenkboot being rolled into its shelter at Zeebrugge, Belgium, circa 1916" from this book: https://www.amazon.com/Unmanned-Systems ... 0262029227

Another site (https://www.modelkitsreview.com/drones- ... n-history/) had this picture

Fernlenkboot2.jpg (22.89 KiB) Viewed 1015 times

The caption roughly reads "German fernlenkboot at full speed".

In the First World War the Imperial German Navy built 17 FL-boats (Fernlenkboot, “remote controlled boat”). Controlled over a 12-mile long wire, they could ram enemy ships while carrying 1,800lbs payloads.

This site (http://www.hisutton.com/Explosive_boats.html) seems to confirm this is what we're looking for.

As has come to be expected, Germany’s first outing into unconventional sneak attack emphasized scientific advancement over improvisation. The Fernlenkboot was a remotely controlled (in 1915!) explosive boat designed to break the British naval blockade without risking the lives of the country’s sailors.
It was a 13m (43ft) motorboat with a beautifully crafted streamlined form concealing a massive 700kg (1,500lb) charge and two 210hp Maybach gasoline engines notrmally used for Zepplins, giving it an incredible 30 knot top speed.

The concept was to launch the boat in the direction of the target from the shore with a length of cable attached down which electronic signals could be sent to control speed and heading, in effect steering the boat on to the target. This worked well during testing but the distance at which the command post could accurately steer onto the target was too limited so, amazingly, an aircraft was added to the equation to act as a spotter and guide. The aircraft communicated with the shore station by wireless radio, and the shore station commanded the boat by wire.

Only one attack was at all successful, with FL-12 (the twelfth of seventeen Fernlenkboote built) attacking the monitor HMS Erebus on 28th October 1917 off Flanders. Erebus was an incredibly heavily armored ship and took the blow on the chin, losing some of her four-foot thick armored belt but not being seriously damaged.

Viewed from the German standpoint the Fernlenkboot was an expensive and difficult weapon to apply and the program was abandoned in 1918. History may view the Fernlenkboot more favorably, at least in the sense of its technology and ingenuity.

That looks like our vehicle! I'm guessing the first time Peytsch was successful sinking the Penelope because he was able to skirt the mine fields by staying close to shore. The Russians may have learned from the experience and set additional mines in the shallows which got him the second time.

[Ironmachine]

If that is indeed the vehicle in question, then the description in Staff's Battle of the Baltic Islands 1917 - Triumph of the Imperial German Navy has a fundamental flaw. What you show is a completely conventional boat, just very streamlined and with a high power/weight ratio, while the description in Staff's book talks about "aero propellers" which were a basic characteristic of what is called an hydroglider, that is a vessel similar to:

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Note that nowhere in the quotes in your last post is the word "hydroglider" used. So it may well be that Peytsch's hydroglider was no hydroglider at all, just a fast, small conventional torpedo boat (which as I said previously, is what is suggested by Frank's German S-Boats in Action in the Second World War, for example).

[jluetjen]

True. It would be interesting to look back at the original sources. Frank definitely describes a different vehicle, but the activities mentioned in Flanders match those of the Fernlenkboot, and better align with the photographic evidence, and the captions on the pictures. I wonder if the reference to aero-propellers is someone's assumption (who never saw the vehicle ) based on the description of the engines.

As far as the reference to hydro-GLIDER, I wonder if it is a reference to the boat riding on a plane, like a modern ski boat. The concept of a planning hull (as well as the name itself) was very novel at the time. Even the fast torpedo boats of the time had displacement hulls. So I could picture the term "glider" being used for a boat that glided on the surface of the water.