Poland didn't even exist as an independent state during that time... That's probably why it isn't mentioned...
Regards\ Panther
Nation that suffered the most in WW1?
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David Lehmann
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About the losses here you will find several numbers given by different sources ... It's in French but the tables are clear enough I guess ...
http://www.grande-guerre.org/Pertes/General.htm
"hommes mobilisés" = mobilized men
"morts" = KIA
"blessés" = WIA
"Prisonniers et disparus" = POW and MIA
"Total des pertes" = KIA + WIA + POW + MIA
I have to say that France lost 10% of its active male population during WWI. The population of before WWI was then only reached again in the 50's.
David
http://www.grande-guerre.org/Pertes/General.htm
"hommes mobilisés" = mobilized men
"morts" = KIA
"blessés" = WIA
"Prisonniers et disparus" = POW and MIA
"Total des pertes" = KIA + WIA + POW + MIA
I have to say that France lost 10% of its active male population during WWI. The population of before WWI was then only reached again in the 50's.
David
Another 'economic' indicator--Gold reserves gained/lost(1919 pounds):
USA +278 million
Japan +183 million
France -25 million
Britain -42 million
Austro-Hungary -55 million
Germany -123 million
USA +278 million
Japan +183 million
France -25 million
Britain -42 million
Austro-Hungary -55 million
Germany -123 million
Last edited by Peter H on 27 Jul 2003, 04:30, edited 1 time in total.
Civilian losses are also an ignored subject.Most reflect famine and disease caused by conflict:
100,000 deaths at sea/air raids
30,000 Belgians
800,000 Rumanians
812,296 Germans
1,000,000 Austrians & Serbians
2,000,000 Russians
2,000,000 massacred Armenians,Greeks,Turks(up to 1923)
6,000,000 Soanish flu
100,000 deaths at sea/air raids
30,000 Belgians
800,000 Rumanians
812,296 Germans
1,000,000 Austrians & Serbians
2,000,000 Russians
2,000,000 massacred Armenians,Greeks,Turks(up to 1923)
6,000,000 Soanish flu
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David Lehmann
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Again this damned question about the number of Russian losses.Moulded wrote:Niall Ferguson in The Pity of War presents the Russian experience,based on death tolls,as the most traumatic:
World War One(1914-17)
1,700,000 military deaths
1,500,000 civilian deaths
3,200,000
Russian Civil War(1918-22)
939,755 Soviet military deaths
750,000 Whites military deaths
2,000,000 civilian deaths
3,689,755
The numbers you have posted reflect the "official" point of view, in other words that what the Reds themselves found acceptable to show for the all world. The Whites sources are rather more objective (although unfortunately very little known) and they call rather more numbers. For example Melgunov called the average number of victims executed by the CheKa - 1,500,000 people per year for the period of 6 years 1917-1923. In total - 9,000,000 ONLY of executed in different ways and circumstances. Add to them almost 10,000,000 of dead of starvation and diseases thanks to the Communist campaign of confiscation of food and 2 - 3 million KIA members of White and Red forces. Totally there are not less than 20,000,000 people or almost 3 times more than all the world (including Russian Empire) taken together lost in the Great War.
>3,689,755
Basing on the style (accuracy up to every person, while the resulted number itself got as a sum of numbers with million people accuracy
) I suppose this is Krivosheev's BS, isn't it? This comedian's "scientific methods" are inimitable. :roll:I've seen the figure of 40,000 French civilian dead suggested due to the war but I can't find the source.What must be remembered was also the starvation factor that resulted in the occupied areas of France--many of the infirm and old died of disease.Area such as Lille,nearly on the frontline,suffered badly as well.Panzermeyer wrote:Hi,
Do you have the numbers of the French civilian losses too ?
I only have casulaties after the Paris aerial bombings :
533 killed
1,261 wounded
David
I have read an Australian account of a trench raid in 1917 that found a dead French woman,bound,in the German trenches.Not much leeway was given to the surrending Germans.An isolated case but things like this must have happened as well.This was found in the diary of an Australian soldier,a first hand account,donated to the Australian War Memorial in the 1970s-- it can't be considred as wartime atrocity propaganda generated by the press,and hence,perhaps a falsehood.
Why the whites are more objetive than red ones? Where is the reason? Where are the sources? White and Reds both the same liers, because any of them are neutrals. How is possible the Whites knew how much people killed Ceka? Maybe because there were one white each red revolutionary back? It is a joke.The numbers you have posted reflect the "official" point of view, in other words that what the Reds themselves found acceptable to show for the all world. The Whites sources are rather more objective
White sources are manipulated as the red ones. At any case, only the red know how much people killed and nobody more. By other side, Whites weren´t any angels in the civil war.
>White and Reds both the same liers,
In no way. The Whites weren't able to be the same liers as the comrades if even they had wished. The same was about the Britishes, the Frenches, the Americans,... every nation in the world at least during the Civil War. The Lenin's monstrous state - "free of all kinds of exploitation society" - was the first practically realized model of a totalitarian state with a totalitarian propagandist machine, isolation from the free world medias, the changeable history etc. And it had been remain alone until the 30s when Hitler constructed his own copy of the Lenin's anti-Utopia - then the Communists got their only rival - the Hitler's regime, able to lie in the same scales as the Dear Comrades. But in 1918-1923 they were alone yet. Nobody could even be comparable with them.
>Maybe because there were one white each red revolutionary back? It is a joke.
It must be a very bad joke (thankfully I haven't got what you tried puting on).
>White sources are manipulated as the red ones.
Couldn't you say before if you have read Melgunov or another White sourse? Else your speech looks like ones our "proletarians" made at the party's meetings: "I've never read Pasternak but I'm vigourosly condemning his anti-Soviet position..."
>At any case, only the red know how much people killed and nobody more.
In no case. They really WOULD have known it the best if only they had ever been worried about. It's ridiculous that some Westerners are still sincerely believe that the Soviets collected the correct numbers but were keeping them in some deeply hidden and strongly guarded safes. There is the only problem - just to open these safes and everything will be clear. When will they undestrstand that the Soviets never saved this info? Furthermore the Soviets were the biggest specialists of cleaning their archives quite regularly because in the Soviet society history used to turn together with the general course of the Party.
>Whites weren´t any angels in the civil war.
Yes, they weren't angels, they were holy megalomartyrs.
In no way. The Whites weren't able to be the same liers as the comrades if even they had wished. The same was about the Britishes, the Frenches, the Americans,... every nation in the world at least during the Civil War. The Lenin's monstrous state - "free of all kinds of exploitation society" - was the first practically realized model of a totalitarian state with a totalitarian propagandist machine, isolation from the free world medias, the changeable history etc. And it had been remain alone until the 30s when Hitler constructed his own copy of the Lenin's anti-Utopia - then the Communists got their only rival - the Hitler's regime, able to lie in the same scales as the Dear Comrades. But in 1918-1923 they were alone yet. Nobody could even be comparable with them.
>Maybe because there were one white each red revolutionary back? It is a joke.
It must be a very bad joke (thankfully I haven't got what you tried puting on).
>White sources are manipulated as the red ones.
Couldn't you say before if you have read Melgunov or another White sourse? Else your speech looks like ones our "proletarians" made at the party's meetings: "I've never read Pasternak but I'm vigourosly condemning his anti-Soviet position..."
>At any case, only the red know how much people killed and nobody more.
In no case. They really WOULD have known it the best if only they had ever been worried about. It's ridiculous that some Westerners are still sincerely believe that the Soviets collected the correct numbers but were keeping them in some deeply hidden and strongly guarded safes. There is the only problem - just to open these safes and everything will be clear. When will they undestrstand that the Soviets never saved this info? Furthermore the Soviets were the biggest specialists of cleaning their archives quite regularly because in the Soviet society history used to turn together with the general course of the Party.
>Whites weren´t any angels in the civil war.
Yes, they weren't angels, they were holy megalomartyrs.
The war had a lot of consequences for Belgium as well. Except for the human losses suffered, the area around Ieper was completely destroyed.
In the "Westhoek" grenades are uncovered daily and in the military base in Houthulst, there's are enough gasgrenades to cover a pretty large area in gas. Some sources speak of over 50000 greandes!
In the "Westhoek" grenades are uncovered daily and in the military base in Houthulst, there's are enough gasgrenades to cover a pretty large area in gas. Some sources speak of over 50000 greandes!
Well the big battles took place in and around Ieper (in English Ypres). The area between the river Yser and the French border is called "De Westhoek". The frontline was more or less situated around the river Yser.
If you travel through the Westhoek you'll see thousands of graves mostly from allied soldiers, except in Vladslo where there's a big German graveyard with statues from Kate Kolwitz.
Houthulst is a small town where the old grenades are stored untill they are dismantled.
If you travel through the Westhoek you'll see thousands of graves mostly from allied soldiers, except in Vladslo where there's a big German graveyard with statues from Kate Kolwitz.
Houthulst is a small town where the old grenades are stored untill they are dismantled.
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human177
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Belgium and Russia suffered the most.
Belgium was completely flattened, their economic advantage with factories lost and many (when you look at the percentages, not the numbers) died.
Russia lost alot of lives and their most important economic and agricultural sources went up in smoke.
As for France, they may have played a big part at the Western front, but they barbarically selfishly drained Germany after the war. Fact is, they got most of their losses refunded.
Of course, Germany also lost alot after the war, but not necessarily during the war.
Belgium was completely flattened, their economic advantage with factories lost and many (when you look at the percentages, not the numbers) died.
Russia lost alot of lives and their most important economic and agricultural sources went up in smoke.
As for France, they may have played a big part at the Western front, but they barbarically selfishly drained Germany after the war. Fact is, they got most of their losses refunded.
Of course, Germany also lost alot after the war, but not necessarily during the war.