"Lvidsgov" April 1915

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wwilson
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"Lvidsgov" April 1915

#1

Post by wwilson » 17 Nov 2021, 18:14

Perhaps someone here knows more.

I ran across this description of a battle in the rules of an old game.
Meeting Engagement, Lvidsgov (April 4th, 1915)
After the Germans failed to take Warsaw in the winter of 1914, they again tried in the spring of 1915. The German 1st Cavalry Division advanced eastwards over the Vistula. Its vanguard was met by a detachment from the II Caucasian Corps. The battle soon turned in the Germans' favor, and they held the strategic crossroads of Lvidsgov, although they suffered heavy losses.
It has what seem to me to be factual errors. I cannot find any place named "Lvidsgov" near the Vistula River. As well, the unit identified seems incorrect because the 1st Cavalry Division of the German Army in 1915 was in Courland, not near the Vistula.

But it is difficult for me to dismiss as completely wrong, because the author of these rules is well known: David Isby. Hard to imagine he got that clash so wrong.

Does the description of the battle in April 1915, or the location name ring a bell?

Thanks.

Cheers

wwilson
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Re: "Lvidsgov" April 1915

#2

Post by wwilson » 17 Nov 2021, 20:12

I think a better name for the Russian force was "2nd Caucasus Army Corps", part of the 1st Army in April 1915.

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GregSingh
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Re: "Lvidsgov" April 1915

#3

Post by GregSingh » 18 Nov 2021, 05:29

If this info about 1st Cavalry Division (German Empire) is correct, in March-April 1915 this unit was fighting in the area which is now border region of Poland and Lithuania.
So it's nowhere near Vistula river.

In that large triangle (using today's spelling on Google maps): Sejny - Marijampolė - Seirijai, only place with similar sounding would be Ludwinów/Людзвінавас/Liudvinavas. In that link above spelled as Luzhwinov.

Found another place in the same area, still terribly misspelled, Lazdijai / Łoździeje.

wwilson
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Re: "Lvidsgov" April 1915

#4

Post by wwilson » 18 Nov 2021, 19:04

@GregSingh

Hey, thank you for the comments.

The game's description is doubtlessly in error on one or more points.

I could see the "-gov" part as equivalent to "-gów" in a Polish placename. "vids" could possible be "widz", but some big assumptions in those guesses. I even scanned a Polish map resource on the internet that gets down to village level, but nothing east of and near to the Vistula leapt out at me. I also wonder if it was old Russian empire name for a location that now has a new name.

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GregSingh
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Re: "Lvidsgov" April 1915

#5

Post by GregSingh » 19 Nov 2021, 01:58

also wonder if it was old Russian empire name for a location that now has a new name.
There are quite detailed period maps on that Polish map server.
They have 1915 German maps as well as German copies of pre-wwI Russian Imperial maps.

wwilson
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Re: "Lvidsgov" April 1915

#6

Post by wwilson » 20 Nov 2021, 10:34

Tangential to this discussion, I found a place where one may read the German history of the war (many volumes online). The appendices with color maps are useful to determine which units were where at any given time.

https://greatmodernmilitaryhistory.blog ... ns_17.html

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GregSingh
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Re: "Lvidsgov" April 1915

#7

Post by GregSingh » 20 Nov 2021, 11:05

That source confirms info provided at the link from my post #3.
1st Cavalry Division was operating just SSW of Marijampol.
Several place names are mentioned by both sources. Unfortunately no "Lvidsgov".

wwilson
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Re: "Lvidsgov" April 1915

#8

Post by wwilson » 21 Nov 2021, 18:35

Greg, concur.

"Something" is wrong with the battle description-- unit IDs or location. I poured over old Polish maps of areas of Lithuania and found no placenames that ended with "gov". Not a placename ending in Polish, Lithuanian, German, or Russian so far as I can tell. In fact, in all of Lithuania, the text "gov" appears only once, in the middle of a street name (according to geoportal.lt)

Cheers

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jluetjen
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Re: "Lvidsgov" April 1915

#9

Post by jluetjen » 09 Dec 2021, 02:05

I think that you might be looking at this too literally.

I suspect that names and places in the game were disguised or changed to suit the game makers. A similar example that I've come across was a battle described in the novel "From the Double Eagle to the Red Flag". The book describes a battle at the village of "Jeliesnitza". As far as I know there is no place with that name. The battle as described actually occurred, and there are German accounts that correlated, but the actual name of the village was "Sinezyezy". I found in a different source that the book was actually referring to Sinezyezy .

Because of the impact of the Communist take-over of Russia, there might have been issues associated with naming specific battles. So rather than tell a history, it was safer to write a fictional novel.

wwilson
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Re: "Lvidsgov" April 1915

#10

Post by wwilson » 09 Dec 2021, 10:10

@jluetjen

You may very well be correct. Could also be that Mr. Isby did not design the scenarios himself and relied on others, who came up with an "eastern European sounding place-name" for the battle.

I did note there was a battle in the summer of 1915 just northwest of Warsaw that, in rough outline, resembled the scenario -- and included the Russian corps mentioned in the scenario description.

Cheers

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