WWI flamthrowers

[cantigny]

Does anyone know where there is a WWI french flamethrower of the P3 of P4 model? I am interested in either museum or private collections. Ideally would like to obtain one if possible in any condition, relic or mint. In addition I am interested in detailed drawings or descriptions in order to construct an exact replica.
Thankyou1

[trickcyclist]

The P3 and P4 were essentially the same weapon, except that the P4 was smaller. I don't have dimensions, just capacity and weight:

P3 - 14 liters (3.7 U.S. gallons); laden weight of 24 kilos (53 pounds)
P4 - 10 liters (2.6 gallons); laden weight of 19 kilos (42 pounds)

The drawings are from a French flamethrower manual. The first one shows the flamethrower, the lance, the 8-second F2 fuse (labeled V2) and the 9-minute F9 fuse (labeled T).

The second drawing shows the knapsack frame.

[cantigny]

This is great! Thankyou.

Do you have the entire manual?

[trickcyclist]

I have almost illegible fourth- or fifth-generation photocopies of the following:

Grand Quartier Général des Armées de l’Est, État Major. Instruction Relative À L’Utilisation Des Compagnies Schilt: Projection Des Liquides Inflammables. Paris: Imprimerie Nationale, 1916.

Grand Quartier Général des Armées du Nord et du Nord-est. Instruction Relative À L’Utilisation Des Compagnies de Lance-flammes. Paris: Imprimerie Nationale, 1918.

Ministère de la Guerre, Section technique des Etudes et Expériences chimiques. Conférences de l'Ecole des gaz de combat: Les Lance-flammes. 2ème Conférence. Lance-flammes légers portatifs. Paris, 1920.

Ministère de la Guerre, Section technique des Etudes et Expériences chimiques. Conférences de l'Ecole des gaz de combat: Les Lance-flammes. 3ème Conférence. Lance-flammes portatifs étrangers. Paris, 1920.

I have an original copy of:

Ministère de la Guerre, Direction de l’Infanterie. Instruction Provisoire sur l’Utilisation des Appareils Lance-flammes et des Engins Incendiaires du 1er Février 1921. Paris: Imprimerie Nationale, 1921.

[/i]

[Ardee]

I've attached a photo -- from one of Peter Chamberlin's books, I've forgotten which -- of the P.4 A little lacking in contrast, I'm afraid.

Trickcyclist, since you have manuals -- do you have an illustration showing how the weapon was operated? I've always seen Flamethrowers -- no matter what make, at least through WWII -- with which the nozzle was held in a two-handed grasp. But, as your illustration shows even clearer then the photograph there's no obvious place for a second hand to be --the "trigger" is rather obvious, but the wires cover the length of the nozzle makes it look like holding it anywhere else would interfear with the weapon's operation....

[trickcyclist]

Ardee:

The manuals I have don't show any drawings of the weapons in use, but here's a photo of a P4 in action at Cantigny.

The lance was made to be operated with one hand, while an assistant opened the various valves and attached fuses.

[Ardee]

Thank you so much for the photo! That's one of the little mysteries I've been working on for so long -- probably because I'm much more oriented towards WWII than WWI. My info is that the P.4 was used in WWII; I didn't know it was a WWI until I came upon this thread...the other pictures of French WWI Flamethrowers I've seen all seem so bulky in contrast to this one....

R

[karlik]

Hi!
Help me please Id. this flamethrower, possible US

Best regards!

[bob lembke]

Karlik;

Very odd beast. Don't recognize it at all, but from the gauge of the hoses and the lance I doubt that it is a flame-thrower (FW) of a normal type, and possibly not a FW at all, but a sprayer. When the Yanks got to Europe the Brits had already gotten out of the light FW business, and the Yanks and their flame/gas boss, Amos Fries, was very much under the influence of the Brits and their flame/gas boss, Foulkes, who was very opposed to light FW. But I have a photo of Yanks training with the French with light FW. French FW doctrine usually did not have them employed in an assault role, like the Germans, but mainly in mopping up positions already over-run by infantry, burning out dugouts that might still be occupied. Therefore, the French often sprayed flame fuel without automatic ignition, and then threw an inciderary grenade into the dugout. The device you show might have been a sprayer for flame fuel. But it clearly had a very slow rate of fuel expulsion and a very short range. A rather odd design.

Bob Lembke

[karlik]

Thank you!

[trickcyclist]

Hi!
Help me please Id. this flamethrower, possible US

Best regards!

The original caption of that photo is "Portable trench apparatus. In position on man's back." It's part of the collection of American University.

The other flamethrower photos in the collection are all captioned "flaming liquid gun" or "flame projector apparatus." It would seem that the device is therefore not a flamethrower but a sprayer for disinfectant or an anti-gas antidote.

American flamethrowers of the era had hydrogen-fueled burners as igniters, fitted to the end of the lance. This device has what appear to be sprayer nozzles, not igniters, on the ends of the two lances.

[karlik]

Thank you all for your clarification!

Britain large flamethrower "Vincent"


No one has a photo other British flamethrowers
Large flamethrower Livens "Large Gallery"
Medium flamethrower Livens "Semi-portable"
Small flamethrowers "Hays" and "Lawrence"
Thanks in advance!

[karlik]

Small flamethrower "Lawrence"

[trickcyclist]

Thank you all for your clarification!

Britain large flamethrower "Vincent"


No one has a photo other British flamethrowers
Large flamethrower Livens "Large Gallery"
Medium flamethrower Livens "Semi-portable"
Small flamethrowers "Hays" and "Lawrence"
Thanks in advance!

No photos of the Livens "Semi-portable" exist. The photos of the Livens "Large Gallery" have copyright restrictions, but I did a drawing of the flamethrower.

[trickcyclist]

Hay Flame Gun.