Junkers 87 in the SCW.

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tigre
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Junkers 87 in the SCW.

Postby tigre » 27 Jan 2017 20:23

Hello to all :D; a little on this and some doubts .........................................

The Junkers Ju 87 "Stuka" in Spain during the CW.

Ju-87A.

Well first of all we must remember that there were other Sturzkampfflugzeug (dive-bomber) that arrived before like the He-50G and the He-123, so the first dive-bomber Junkers 87 that arrived in Spain in November 1936, was a pre-production version of the Series A-0 (V4) manned by Uffz. Herrmann Beurer and Uffz. Zitzewitz. The idea was to test the dive bombing techniques in real operations. On December 20, 1936, were operating with the V(ersuch) J./88 (experimental squadron) in Tablada three Bf-109 (V3, V5 and V6), a He-112 (V4) and a Ju-87A-0. According to some versions the plane returned to Germany in secret in early 1937, however in a list of Flight material available to the Legion Condor dated July 7, 1937 there was still a Ju-87 A as experimental dive-bomber and AFAIK it carried the code 29-2 (the 29-1 possibly was for the He-50G plane arrived previously and which did not make a good impression). [Here the first doubts other sources specify the code like 29-1 and in which date the airplane returned to Germany?]

It was not until January 15, 1938 that the first three Ju-87 A-1 arrived under the command of Lt. Hermann Haas; These aircraft were successfully assembled in the Aviation Park Workshops of Leon. The crews and machines (I guess) came from the 11. Staffel of the IV./ LG 1 in Barth, which was under Oberstleutnant Günthher Schwartzkopf and from mid-1937 had this model of dive-bomber plane. Precisely Schwartzkopf was the one who recommended to send the Stuka to Spain to be tried in real combat missions.

On February 7, a Kette (chain of three aircraft) was deployed at the Calamocha airfield (Teruel) and integrated into the J. / 88, initially as Stukakette and then as the 5. J / 88 with the codes 29-2 to 29-4. Twenty technicians had come from Germany for the maintenance of the aircraft, including mechanics, gunsmiths and other auxiliary personnel. The normal load was of a bomb of 250 kg, but it could carry a bomb of 500 kg in central position (according to the tests performed in Rechlin in this case only the pilot was flying). [Another doubt, with the Jumo 210D engine the Ju-87A-1 could carry a bomb of 500 kg and both crew? According to Ries & Ring it operated with bombs of 250 kg]

Members of the 5. Staffel J./ 88 (Ju-87A).

01) Haas, Hermann / Leutnant / Führer der Kette (29-4)
02) Weyert, Gerhard / Leutnant / Flugzeugführer (29-3)
03) Bartels, Ernst / Unteroffizier / Flugzeugführer (29-2)
04) Kramer, Emil / Feldwebel / Bordfunker (29-4)
05) Göller, Ernst / Unteroffizier / Bordfunker (29-3)
06) Fleisch, Alfred / Unteroffizier / Bordfunker (29-2)

Sources: Legion Condor. Ries & Ring
Myths and fallacies of the bombing of the Maestrazgo by airplanes Stuka (May of 1938). Aportes nº90, year XXXI (1/2016).
Condor: The Luftwaffe in Spain, 1936-39. Patrick Laureau.
Http://reibert.info/threads/legion-kond ... dor.30929/

Cheers. Raúl M 8-).
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Last edited by tigre on 28 Jan 2017 18:33, edited 1 time in total.

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Ironmachine
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Re: Junkers 87 in the SCW.

Postby Ironmachine » 28 Jan 2017 09:18

On December 20, 1936, were operating with the V(ersuch) J./88 (experimental squadron) in Tablada three Bf-109 (V3, V5 and V6), a He-112 (V4) and a Ju-87A-0.

As I wrote in another thread, the He 112 was the V3 and the Bf 109s were the V3, V4 and V6.

According to some versions the plane returned to Germany in secret in early 1937, however in a list of Flight material available to the Legion Condor dated July 7, 1937 there was still a Ju-87 A as experimental dive-bomber and AFAIK it carried the code 29-2 (the 29-1 possibly was for the He-50G plane arrived previously and which did not make a good impression). [Here the first doubts other sources specify the code like 29-1 and in which date the airplane returned to Germany?]

The first Ju-87 carried the code 23-1, that had been previously assigned to the He 50.
AFAIK, the exact date of return of this Ju-87 to Germany is not known, but its last registered service was carried out on 9 January 1937.
Regarding the presence in Spain of a Ju-87 in July 1937, I have never seen any reference to it. Highly unprobable, IMHO. AFAIK, the code 29-1 was not used during the SCW. The first Ju-87 was 23-1, as I have already told, and then the code "23" was used for the BR 20 bombers. The Ju-87s that arrived later were assigned the "29" and began numbering the examples from "2", as there has already been a "1": 23-1.

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tigre
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Re: Junkers 87 in the SCW.

Postby tigre » 28 Jan 2017 18:38

Thanks for shedding light on this. The codes, dates and models changes according to the sources you are referring to. Cheers. Raúl M 8-).

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Re: Junkers 87 in the SCW.

Postby tigre » 30 Jan 2017 19:04

Hello to all :D; more.........................................

The Junkers Ju 87 "Stuka" in Spain during the CW.

Ju-87A-0.

I found this photo on the web, according to the caption, the picture shows the first Ju-87A-0 in Spain during 1936 ..............................

Sources: http://www.ebay.de/itm/371834761283?clk ... rmvSB=true

Cheers. Raúl M 8-).
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Re: Junkers 87 in the SCW.

Postby kglass » 03 Feb 2017 14:35

Thank you tigre and Ironmachine for posting this thread. Very interesting reading.

Regards,
Ken Glass

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tigre
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Re: Junkers 87 in the SCW.

Postby tigre » 14 Feb 2017 21:55

Hello to all :D; a query.........................................

Emblem of the Ju-87A-1.

According to all references I've found, the first kette of Ju-87 A was incorporated into the J./88 as its 5. Staffel and carried as an emblem the "Jolanthe" due to the German film "Krach um Jolanthe" (Troubles with Jolanthe), but also carried another emblem a bowler hat with an umbrella inside a rhomboid figure (see photos below) ..........

Source: Waffen Arsenal 151 - Junkers Ju-87 Stuka.

Any idea about this emblem and in what period they carried it? Cheers. Raúl M 8-).

Regarding to the previous photo the characteristic geometric stain in the undercarriage gear identifies it as the Ju-87 A-1 "29-5" and therefore very far from 1936................
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Re: Junkers 87 in the SCW.

Postby von thoma » 16 Feb 2017 08:39

Any idea about this emblem and in what period they carried it?


Hello Tigre:

Early 1st insignia of StG 163 ( Jolanthe Kette ) in Spain.
Later was forbidden by the High Command ( By obscene ?? ), and they adopted the pig "Jolanthe" 8O
Used during the first months of 1938.

Condor-Legion-Spain-1938-.jpg
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Maxschnauzer
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Re: Junkers 87 in the SCW.

Postby Maxschnauzer » 16 Feb 2017 09:24

Hello Tigre,
The story as I have heard it is that the bowler hat and umbrella where adopted as a joke to say that in accordance with the propaganda of the time they were merely volunteer "Civil Servants" and not regular Luftwaffe. Apparently the High Command lacked a sense of humor and put a stop to that.
Cheers,
Max

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Re: Junkers 87 in the SCW.

Postby von thoma » 16 Feb 2017 09:32

Two highly recommended books :

Unidades Experimentales de la Legión Cóndor ; " Las escuadrillas VJ/88 y VB/88 en la GCE ".
by Rafael A. Permuy y Lucas Molina.

81DNKZv6GdL.jpg


Stukas en España.
"Las Unidades de Bombardeo en picado de la Legión Cóndor".
by Rafael A. Permuy y Lucas Molina.

716uJilplNL.jpg


Photo:https://www.amazon.es/
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tigre
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Re: Junkers 87 in the SCW.

Postby tigre » 16 Feb 2017 20:02

Hello von thoma and Maxschnauzer :D; thank you very much to both of you for those inputs :wink:. Cheers. Raúl M 8-).

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Re: Junkers 87 in the SCW.

Postby durb » 21 Feb 2017 08:00

IIRC, the Ju 87 was called "Stupido" in Spain. This probably because the nose of the plane looked somehow like as a shark smiling in silly way. (look the bookcover above and see the "smile" below the propeller)

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Ironmachine
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Re: Junkers 87 in the SCW.

Postby Ironmachine » 21 Feb 2017 13:34

AFAIK, only the Ju-87A was so nicknamed, not the Ju-87B. And it was due to its flight behavior, not to its appearance. It seems that this byname was not much used, anyway. And I also wonder about the origin of the nickname, because "Stupido" is not an Spanish word; it is said "Estúpido" in Spanish.

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tigre
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Re: Junkers 87 in the SCW.

Postby tigre » 14 Mar 2017 02:23

Hello to all :D; more.........................................

The Junkers Ju 87 "Stuka" in Spain during the CW.

Ju-87A.

The Kette of Ju-87A, which would later go down in history as "Stuka" (abbreviated to Sturzkampfflugzeug - dive bomber) and that from February 15, 1938 5. J / 88 (Ries & Ring), carried out its First operational flight on February 17, 1938 in close air support to the national troops on the Teruel front. The planes carried 250 kg bombs (Ries & Ring), however, on this day not only went on the wrong target but the bombs fell out of it. The operations lasted until February 22, 1938.

During the first day before mentioned two flights were carried out, the targets being the concentrations of enemy troops in Aldehuela and on the cemetery of Teruel. In later days the services were realized in Valdecebro and Castralbo, Puebla de Valverde, Cobla, again Aldehuela and the road to the South of Teruel, as well as the columns of enemy tanks and trucks in retreat, realizing several exits, according to the days. Each plane carried in its undercarriage, an emblem of "Jolanthe", a little pig. (any idea of ​​when the change of emblem took place? ).

Sources: Legion Condor. Ries&Ring
Mitos y falacias de los bombardeos del Maestrazgo por aviones Stuka (Mayo de 1938). APORTES nº90, año XXXI (1/2016).
Condor: The Luftwaffe in Spain, 1936-39. Patrick Laureau.

Cheers. Raúl M 8-).
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