muzzle loading cannon

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Felix C
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muzzle loading cannon

Post by Felix C » 20 May 2022 15:06

Watching a bit of docu which had a SCW segment and see a muzzle loader fieldpiece in use. Perhaps for propaganda filming purposes only. Interesting if it is in legitimate combat.(there was much crowding in the scene so not sure) It is in the relevant years of the PBS Ernst Hemingway docu https://www.pbs.org/kenburns/hemingway/

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Ironmachine
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Re: muzzle loading cannon

Post by Ironmachine » 21 May 2022 20:46

Can you post a still image of the video showing the gun in question?

ROLAND1369
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Re: muzzle loading cannon

Post by ROLAND1369 » 04 Jun 2022 01:39

One possibility is the use of significant German 170 MM Minenwerfers by the Republican forces. They were definitely muzzle-loading. Source Landships.
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Ironmachine
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Re: muzzle loading cannon

Post by Ironmachine » 05 Jun 2022 10:16

German minewerfer in 170 mm, 240 mm or 250 mm caliber and similar weapons like the Russian 152mm Metal Plant (Spanish name) were used in the SCW and were muzzle-loading weapons, but technically speaking they were heavy mortars, so if we call them fieldpieces all mortars should be considered and in that case the number of muzzle-loading artillery pieces in the SCW (and in any modern war for that case) would be significant.
I don't think Felix C was talking about one such mortar, but can't be sure without seeing it. That's why I asked him if he could post a still image of the piece in question?
Other than mortars, I can't remember any muzzle-loading field artillery piece in service during the SCW. There was no real need for them, as there were plenty of breech-loading guns available.

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Re: muzzle loading cannon

Post by ROLAND1369 » 06 Jun 2022 03:53

I was not suggesting that the 170 was used as anything other than a mortar however the picture of the piece on the transport wagon resembles a muzzle loading gun and could be mistaken as one in a quick view in a video, particularly by someone not familiar with ordnance. I agree that I have seen no evidence of muzzle loading cannon being used during the SCW however some of the pieces used were very close in age. And Yes I am quite aware that the 170 is not fired from the transport wagon.

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Ironmachine
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Re: muzzle loading cannon

Post by Ironmachine » 06 Jun 2022 07:50

I was not really answering to your post, just making clear, in the interest of Felix C, what this weapons really was, because while you certainly did not suggest that the 170 was used as anything other than a mortar or that it was fired from the transport wagon, you didn't state that it was just a kind of heavy mortar or that it was not fired from the transport wagon, either. So if he was in fact talking about this weapon, I thought he should be made aware of the fact that it was not really a fieldpiece but a very heavy mortar and that it and similar weapons were used the SCW.
However, German minewerfers are relatively well known and their participation in the SCW is also known, so I don't know if Felix C is talking about them. Again, the image of the piece in question is needed to make a definitive conclusion.

Felix C
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Re: muzzle loading cannon

Post by Felix C » 10 Jun 2022 20:48

I will take a screenshot when the Hemingway docu airs again. It definitely not an excerpt from Spanish Earth as I watched that in case it was. Will have to table this question for about six months as that is the usual interval before a re-airing.
Last edited by Felix C on 10 Jun 2022 21:44, edited 1 time in total.

Felix C
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Re: muzzle loading cannon

Post by Felix C » 10 Jun 2022 20:57

ROLAND1369 wrote:
06 Jun 2022 03:53
I was not suggesting that the 170 was used as anything other than a mortar however the picture of the piece on the transport wagon resembles a muzzle loading gun and could be mistaken as one in a quick view in a video, particularly by someone not familiar with ordnance. I agree that I have seen no evidence of muzzle loading cannon being used during the SCW however some of the pieces used were very close in age. And Yes I am quite aware that the 170 is not fired from the transport wagon.
That is quite condescending particularly as You have no information as to my degree of knowledge or lack thereof.

Felix C
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Re: muzzle loading cannon

Post by Felix C » 18 Sep 2022 21:17

The Hemingway documentary aired again. Here is the image in question. Different zooms.
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Ironmachine
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Re: muzzle loading cannon

Post by Ironmachine » 19 Sep 2022 07:35

The image is not of good quality, but it looks like a "Cañón de montaña de 7,5 cm. Krupp Modelo 1896", a.k.a. as "Cañón de Acero de 7,5 centímetros Corto de Tiro rápido Modelo 1896".
Look here:
https://www.1898miniaturas.com/article/ ... p-de-75mm/
http://home.coqui.net/sarrasin/krup.htm
If that's the gun in question, then it was a breech-loading gun. An old piece not in service in the Spanish Army in 1936, but still present in artillery parks, so it could have been used in combat, at least in the first days of the war. AFAIK, later the Republicans only used them for coastal defence duties.

Felix C
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Re: muzzle loading cannon

Post by Felix C » 19 Sep 2022 08:47

En otro sitio me dijeron que era un cañón de montaña Plasencia 8cm mod 1873.

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Ironmachine
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Re: muzzle loading cannon

Post by Ironmachine » 19 Sep 2022 10:15

You can see the Plasencia 8cm mod. 1873 here:
https://www.amonio.es/canon_monta_Plasencia_8cm.htm
Considering the length of the gun that goes beyond the wheels, the shape of the chamber and the outline of the carriage, I think the Cañón de montaña de 7,5 cm. Krupp Modelo 1896 is a better option:
Cañón.jpg
However, regarding the original question, both the Krupp and the Plasencia were breech-loading guns, so there's no difference in that regard.
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Felix C
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Re: muzzle loading cannon

Post by Felix C » 19 Sep 2022 21:35

Many thanks. I found the source of the photo as well. David Seymour taken in 1936.
sharp photo.jpg
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Ironmachine
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Re: muzzle loading cannon

Post by Ironmachine » 20 Sep 2022 07:00

And the same photo colorized:
Colorized.jpg
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