AS 88 operations

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Spearfish
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AS 88 operations

Post by Spearfish » 27 Sep 2012 16:30

Does anyone have a list of ships attacked by the He 59 floatplanes of the Condor Legion's AS 88?
Regards

kglass
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Re: AS 88 operations

Post by kglass » 28 Sep 2012 08:09

Hello Spearfish,

Per the book 'Condor, The Luftwaffe in Spain', c. Hikoki Press, pages 56-60: AS/88 claimed 52 vessels during the war. These claims were for sunk, beached and captured results. Nine of the claims were made by one pilot. The only vessel names given in the book are the steamer Delfin, transport Nuria and British freighter Thorpeness. The latter was the only vessel sunk by a German torpedo during the SCW. The French edition of the book is 'La Legion Condor', both authored by Patrick Laureau, with similar text in each.

HTH,
Ken Glass
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Last edited by kglass on 28 Sep 2012 18:48, edited 4 times in total.

Orwell1984
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Re: AS 88 operations

Post by Orwell1984 » 28 Sep 2012 14:59

Image
http://www.amazon.com/Sea-Planes-Legion ... 578&sr=1-2
See if you can get your hands on a copy of this book.
Appendix VI on pages 188-190 is a chronological listing of vessels captured or sunk by AS/88.
Names, dates, country and tonnage are provided.
This list runs to 48 vessels.

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Ironmachine
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Re: AS 88 operations

Post by Ironmachine » 28 Sep 2012 17:16

Alternatively, if you understand Spanish or can use an on-line traslator (I can help you with any problem), you can download the Revista de Historia Naval nº 43 (1993) from this link:
http://www.portalcultura.mde.es/Galeria ... HN_043.pdf
Beginning on page 55 there is the article Las pérdidas de buques mercantes republicanos causadas por hidroaviones de la Legión Cóndor durante la guerra civil española (1936-1939). From page 67 to page 78 you have a chronological listing (with details) of all the actions of the AS 88 that caused the loss of any ship.
It should be noted, however, that the number of ships sunk or captured by the AS 88 is given as 44 (not the 48 given by the book of the previous post).
The article also includes information about other torpedo attacks that did not sunk any ship, but other (non-torpedo) attacks are not included (for example, the attack on the battleship Jaime I on May 1937).
Regards.

kglass
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Re: AS 88 operations

Post by kglass » 28 Sep 2012 18:51

Thanks Orwell1984 and Ironmachine.

Regards,
Ken Glass

Spearfish
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Re: AS 88 operations

Post by Spearfish » 01 Oct 2012 08:55

Kglass, Orwell1984 and Ironmachine
Very many thanks for all your help and advice and apologies for the delayed response as I was cross checking with research I carried out several years ago.
I thought you might be interested in the list I have drawn up
AS/88 attacks is taken from the Revista de Historia Naval information augmented by contemporary reports. Ships are sunk unless otherise stated.
1937
January 30 Delfin (1,253 grt)
May 28 Kardin (3,717 grt)
August 13 Edith (1,566 grt)
September 30 Guecho (3,276 grt)
October 30 Jean Weems (2,349 grt)
1938
January 4 Alcira (1,387 grt)
February 23 Shetland (1,846 grt) (damaged)
February 27 Cabo Tres Forsas (2,265 grt)
March 14 Isla de Menorca (1,022 grt)
March 15 Cabo Culler (2,246 grt)
March 18 San Silvero (60 grt)
April 7 Rio Urumea patrol boat
April 15 Morisca (209 grt)
May 18 D 130 and D131 patrol boats
May 25 Thorpehall (1,251 grt)
May 27 Nausicaa (5,005 grt)
May 30 El Djem (2,575 grt)
May 30 Sebastian Martin (1,063 grt)
June 6 English Tanker (5,367 grt)
June 7 Frutero (340 grt)
June 7 Pascual Flores (169 grt)
June 8 Brisbane (4,004 grt)
June 10 Isadora (1,324 grt)
June 10 Thorpehaven (3,683 grt)
June 10 Stanray (880 grt) (Straffed)
June 21 Thorpeness (4,798 grt)
June 22 Sunion (3,054 grt)
July 10 Betis (1,011 grt)
July 24 Vicente (534 grt)
July 25 Antonio Matutes (66 grt)
July 25 Dellwyn (1,451 grt)
July 29 Bodil (844 grt)
August 8 Lake Lugano (2,210 grt)
August 15 Campmanes (6,276 grt)
October 4 Luimneach (1,074 grt) (Damaged)
November 6 Margaret Rose (348 grt) (beached but salved)
November 7 Almeria (dredger)
November 25 Bobie, Cemenco, Kaolack, Stanwell all damaged in Valencia
January Alicante (3,878 grt)
February 6 Authorpe (271 grt)
February-March Urola (3,675 grt)
Date unknown
Sud (2,949 grt)

The following is a list of probable AS/88 attacks based either on contemporary reports or on patterns of operations shown by the above. However, some of these attacks may have been by Italian (or even Spanish) seaplanes based in Majorca for which I currently have no information. Some Savoia bombers (probably S.79) appear to have flown maritime reconnaissance/attack missions but I have tried not to include them. Most ships were hit during Italian raids on Spain's eastern ports, and the Condor Legion's K/88 appears to have hit only the northern ports, notably Gijon.
1937
April 18 Mar Caribe (5,152 grt) sunk
May 25 J.J.Sister (1,527 grt) sunk
August 11 Chapaev (3,566 grt) sunk
October 7 Ettore Straffed.
November 22 Viliamanrique (1,506 grt) sunk
1938
May 7 Stancroft and Stanhope attacked
June 8 Gandia (dredger) sunk
June 14 Remedios (4,461 grt) sunk
June 15 La Guardia (667 grt) sunk
December 30 Marionga (4,236 grt) Crew abandoned her but then returned
1939
January 24 Huntress 95,704 grt) (damaged)

Any comments or crticisms are more than welcome and, once again gentlemen, very many thanks for all your help.
I will try to get a copy of the AS/88 book if I can

kglass
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Re: AS 88 operations

Post by kglass » 01 Oct 2012 15:40

Hello Spearfish,

Thank you very much for the information. There was no mention (in the books authored by Patrick Laureau) that AS/88 in its combat operations got any direct support from J/88.

Regards,
Ken Glass

gttf
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Re: AS 88 operations

Post by gttf » 01 Oct 2012 21:15

Hello,
I have different versions, about some of the listed sinkings:
Delfin, sunk by Italian submarine Menotti, off C. Torrex (Malaga), 31/01/1937
Guecho, sunk by S81, XXV Gruppo BN, Valencia, 16/09/1937
Cabo Cullera, sunk by S79 8 Stormo BV, Tarragona, 14/01/1939 (see also http://www.wrecksite.eu/wreck.aspx?121020 )
Thorpehall, sunk by S79 XXVIII Gruppo BV, Valencia, 25/06/1938
El Djem, sunk by S79 XXVIII Gruppo BV, Valencia, 30/05/1938
English Tanker, sunk by S79 XXVII Gruppo BV, Alicante, 6/06/1938
Thorpehaven, sunk by S79 XXVIII Gruppo BV, Alicante, 10/06/1938
Sunion, sunk by S79 XXVIII Gruppo BV, Valencia, 22/06/1938
Campomanes, sunk by S81 XXV Gruppo BN, Valencia, 15/08/1938
Authorpe, sunk by S79 8 Stormo BV, Alicante, 6/02/1939

The bombers were part of Italian units of the Aviacion Legionaria

The previous data are drawn from the sources listed hereinafter:

Mattesini, F. “Il blocco navale italiano nella guerra di Spagna (ottobre 1936-marzo 1939). Parte prima: Come si giunse alla prima campagna sottomarina e ai bombardamenti navali di Barcellona e di Valencia”, Bollettino d’Archivio Marina Militare, settembre 1997

Mattesini, F. “Il blocco navale italiano nella guerra di Spagna (ottobre 1936-marzo 1939). Parte seconda: Le operazioni navali dell'estate 1937, e l'attività della Regia Aeronautica contro i porti della Spagna repubblicana”, Bollettino d’Archivio Marina Militare, dicembre 1997

Rapalino, P. “La Regia Marina in Spagna 1936-1939”, Mursia, Milano, 2007

I hope this could be interesting
Best regards

Fabrizio

Spearfish
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Re: AS 88 operations

Post by Spearfish » 02 Oct 2012 06:58

Ken and Fabrizio
Many thanks for your replies.
So far as I am aware even during inland bombing missions AS/88 received no fighter escort. There was one incident when Majorca-based seaplanes atatcked a ship which had an air escort and drove them off, but I do not know whether or not this was AS/88, Italian or Spanish seaplanes.
Fabrizio, I will cross check and come back to you. Many thanks for the tip about the two articles. Do you know whether or not they are on line?
Regards
Spearfish

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Ironmachine
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Re: AS 88 operations

Post by Ironmachine » 02 Oct 2012 07:52

Spearfish wrote:So far as I am aware even during inland bombing missions AS/88 received no fighter escort. There was one incident when Majorca-based seaplanes atatcked a ship which had an air escort and drove them off, but I do not know whether or not this was AS/88, Italian or Spanish seaplanes.
IIRC, the incident you mention happened when the AS/88 planes were attacking the Delfín. It was not the only one; for example, on 5 February two He-60 were shot down by I-15s from the Rompedizo air base (Málaga), though one of them was recovered by the cruiser Canarias. The Heinkels had no fighter escort, even though the presence of the enemy fighters in the area should have been known.
Regards.

kglass
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Re: AS 88 operations

Post by kglass » 02 Oct 2012 08:04

Thanks for the replies, Spearfish and Ironmachine.

Regards,
Ken Glass

Spearfish
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Re: AS 88 operations

Post by Spearfish » 02 Oct 2012 08:07

Fabrizio
The Delfin, Guecho, English Tanker, Sunion and Campomanes were officially credited to AS/88 in Spanish records (see Revista de Historia Naval). However, it is possible that 27 Gruppo BV finished off English Tanker which had been badly damaged some days earlier in an AS/88 attack.
Cross-checking of the others indicates I was wrong in attributing these to AS/88 which was made on information which I had regarded, at the time, as accurate.
Many thanks
Spearfish

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Ironmachine
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Re: AS 88 operations

Post by Ironmachine » 02 Oct 2012 09:07

The Delfín story is much more complicated than it seems. Depending on the source, you can see that it was sunk by AS/88 planes or by the Italian submarine, and there are even some (unsourced) webpages that state the ship was also shelled by the cruiser Almirante Cervera. 8O
Fortunately, there is an article in the Revista General de Marina, titled "La pérdida del vapor Delfín. Un naufragio con tres autores", that definitively resolves the matter. What happened was this:
1) the Delfín was first attacked on 30 January by a He-59 (Lieutenant Klumper), escorted by two He-60s; the He-59 launched a torpedo, but it did not work properly and did not reach its target.
2) to escape, Delfín went aground deliberately; the crew left the ship.
3) after the planes left the area, the crew returned to the ship and tried to free it.
4) at 16:30 the planes returned to bomb the ship; they did not get a hit, but the crew again left the ship and refused to return.
5) in the night of 31 January, the Italian submarine Ciro Menotti launched two torpedoes against the Delfín, that was still aground and without crew. After the attack, the ship was considered lost and not worth the effort to save it.
6) on 2 February the seaplanes of AS/88 made a last attack against the Delfín. A 250kg bomb launched by Lieutenant Klumper hit the ship in the middle.
Due to the lack of direct communication between the authors of the attacks and the autonomy of the headquarters involved, each one attributed the sinking to himself. The commander of the Italian submarine was rewarded with a Medaglia d'argento al Valore Militare, and Klumper was given a diploma signed by Göring certifying his authorship of the sinking, the first one made by AS/88.
So who should be credited for the loss of the Delfín? Your choice. :wink:
Regards.

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Ironmachine
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Re: AS 88 operations

Post by Ironmachine » 02 Oct 2012 10:14

By the way, it was in this last attack of 2 February when Klumper reported the presence of enemy fighters.

gttf
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Re: AS 88 operations

Post by gttf » 02 Oct 2012 23:51

Hello
Ironmachine, very interesting story about "Delfin": all the different versions agree each other.
Btw, which attack on Jaime I are you referring to ? AFAIK, Jaime I was raided on the morning of 21/05/1937, when she was in Almeria harbour, by 5 S79 of XXIX Gruppo BV of the Aviacion Légionaria: each S79 dropped a stick of 12 100-kg bombs and at least 1-2 (according to different sources) hit the ship amidships + 2 near misses on starboard and 3 on the quay. Maybe also AS88 seaplanes raided the battleship in the same period ?

Spearfish, the two articles are not on-line, AFAIK
Regards

FAbrizio

Sources
Mattesini, cited
Pedriali, F. "Guerra di Spagna e Aviazione Italiana", Ufficio Storico, Aeronautica Militare Italiana, Rome, 1992

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