The official AHF Spanish Civil War quiz thread

Discussions on all aspects of the Spanish Civil War including the Condor Legion, the Germans fighting for Franco in the Spanish Civil War.
durb
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Re: The official AHF Spanish Civil War quiz thread

Postby durb » 12 Dec 2015 19:10

Probably you are more informed better sources than I´m on this matter. However I did made a study of "Spanish refugee crisis" in the Finnish embassy during 1936-1937 and according the documents of Finnish Foreign Ministry also the Finnish embassy housed as many as 2000 Spanish refugees during the autumn 1936 - spring 1937. By the November- December 1936 the Finnish embassy (or several houses rented with its name and thus protected by Finnish flag) was known to house more Spanish refugees (approximately 1700 by late November 1936) than any other embassy in Madrid. This also according to Aurelio Nuñez, the Chilean ambassador who as the doyen (senior represantive of the diplomatic corps in Madrid) did inform the Finnish authorities about the refugee situation in Madrid.

But the Chile´s Embassy was probably the biggest "refugee shelter" in Madrid after all - according to some claims they took in almost 4000 people: http://thediplomatinspain.com/en/chiles ... civil-war/

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Re: The official AHF Spanish Civil War quiz thread

Postby Ironmachine » 12 Dec 2015 21:53

I would take the number of 4,000 people in Chile's Embassy with many grains of salt. Your link says that this number was given by Pablo Neruda, which I don't think can have any reliable source for it. Carlos Morla Lynch, Chilean diplomat stationed in Madrid, wrote:
Al hacerme cargo de la Embajada, el 19 de abril [1937], ascendía el número de personas que figuraban en las listas a alrededor de 2.000, más 150 que ingresaron después de haber sido presentadas las listas citadas al Gobierno, con lo que se faltó al compromiso contraído de no admitir a un solo asilado más.”( ibid, p.62)

http://chile.gob.cl/espana/2011/03/11/presidente-pinera-y-alcalde-ruiz-gallardon-rinden-homenaje-al-chileno-carlos-morla-lynch/
From that date till the end of the war, it seems that only a relatively small number of Republican refugees went into the embassy, so we are far from the number of 4,000.
It should be noted that there is a wide discrepancy in the sources about the total number of refugees in the embassies, I have seen numbers ranging from 6,000 to 20,000. It should be noted also that there is a difference between the real refugees living in the embassies and those registered as refugees but residing in their own homes (with a much weaker level of protection) which was frequently the case of the wifes and children of the real refugees. Spanish sources seem to be fairly consistent in saying that Chile's embassy housed more Spanish refugees during the war than any other embassy in Madrid. The main problem regarding the Finnish embassy may well be that it was a Spanish employee, Francisco Cachero, who began on his own initiative to admit refugees, often charging them money (the ambassador had left Madrid in the early days of the war, afraid of the growing violence in the streets). With the growing number of refugees, he began to rent buildings to house them without any authorization from the ambassador or the government of Finland (and apparently the man who rented them was not authorized to do so, either) so with an invalid contract there was no extraterritoriality and therefore the asylum offered was not legal.

durb
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Re: The official AHF Spanish Civil War quiz thread

Postby durb » 14 Dec 2015 14:55

Yes, I´m well aware about the controversiality of the Finnish embassy case and I know that it was due to Francisco Cachero´s private initiative and not authorized by Finnish authorities. Anyway about 700 refugees were evacuated from Madrid to Italy in May 1937 (with the permission of Republican authorities) and this evacuation was fully paid by the Finnish state. Practically Cachero could act as a "charge d´affaires" of Finnish embassy although he was not officially authorized by Finnish state to do that. It was a very complicated issue and is perhaps worth of further discussion (as well as the refugee question in general). If interested, I can send you a PM regarding the Spanish refugees in the Finnish embassy based on documents which can be found from the archives of Finnish Foreign Ministry.

For the quiz question the Chilean embassy is the right answer. It is time to move on and it is your turn.

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Ironmachine
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Re: The official AHF Spanish Civil War quiz thread

Postby Ironmachine » 14 Dec 2015 17:51

Spain's highest military decoration, the "Laureada de San Fernando", can be awarded not only to individuals but also to whole military units. Which units of "La Legión" were awarded the "Laureada" during the Spanish Civil War?

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Re: The official AHF Spanish Civil War quiz thread

Postby durb » 04 Jan 2016 19:50

From one websource I found these units of the Legion awarded with "Laureada de San Fernando" during the SCW (1938-1939):
1st, 4th, 6th and 9th (or I, IV, VI and IX) Banderas (=battalions) for their actions at the Madrid front (Ciudad Universitaria) during 15.11.1936 - 10.5.1937
- according to same source the 6th (VI) Bandera gained even a second "Laureada" for its actions at the Toledo front during 10.-11.5.1937
15th (XV) Bandera was decorated for its actions at the Aragon front during 23.-30.5.1938

Besides these the 16th company of IV Bandera was awarded with "Laureada" for its actions at the Ebro front during 22.-23.3.1937 but it was awarded years after SCW (in 1943).

Source: http://www.lalegion.es/laureados.htm

By the way - was any foreign unit or individual awarded with "Laureada" during SCW or later for their efforts in the SCW? I think that we have touched this issue earlier...IIRC, there was not such a case (at least not any German pilot...)

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Ironmachine
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Re: The official AHF Spanish Civil War quiz thread

Postby Ironmachine » 04 Jan 2016 22:27

Right answer. Over to you.

By the way - was any foreign unit or individual awarded with "Laureada" during SCW or later for their efforts in the SCW?

No German individual or unit received the "Laureada". For the Italians I'm not so sure, but I think the answer is also no.

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Ironmachine
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Re: The official AHF Spanish Civil War quiz thread

Postby Ironmachine » 05 Jan 2016 10:35

I have to make some clarifications on the issue of Italians awarded the Laureada. There were two Italians that received the "Laureada": corporal Renato Zanardo and lieutenant Giusseppe Borghesse de Borbón Parma, but they were both in La Legión, not fighting as part of any Italian unit.
In Italian sources there are references to the "Laureada" being supposedly awarded to the Maggiore Carrista Paolo Palladini of the CTV, but I can't find any confirmation in a reliable Spanish source, so I would be very cautious with that one. Perhaps some Italian member of the forum can provide some more info about this supposed "Laureada" so we can confirm or refute its bestowal.
Regards.

durb
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Re: The official AHF Spanish Civil War quiz thread

Postby durb » 06 Jan 2016 15:48

Thanks for the additional info. Now as we are in the military decorations of SCW and those awarded with them, let´s have a fairly easy question regarding the Republican side. This should be easy also for the newcomers of this quiz.

The "Placa Laureada de Madrid" has been regarded as the highest Republican military decoration during the SCW and very, very few were awarded with it. One famous Republican aviator was awarded with "Placa Laureada de Madrid" (although he never received it). He was the only pilot to be awarded with this decoration. What was his name?

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Ironmachine
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Re: The official AHF Spanish Civil War quiz thread

Postby Ironmachine » 06 Jan 2016 19:59

Leocadio Mendiola (though he never received it).

durb
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Re: The official AHF Spanish Civil War quiz thread

Postby durb » 06 Jan 2016 22:07

Correct. Over to you again - hopefully some newcomer will come with an answer to the next one so that we two would not be the only ones to keep this quiz going on!

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Ironmachine
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Re: The official AHF Spanish Civil War quiz thread

Postby Ironmachine » 07 Jan 2016 09:34

Frankly, I doub it. This is one of the less "popular" sub-forums judging by the number of threads, and in general quiz threads seem to be far less popular now than they were in the past. Also, I suppose that knowledge about the SCW is quite limited abroad (that's also the case in Spain, in fact) but for the "international brigades as freedom fighters" folklore. So I would not hold my breath fow newcomers...
Anyway, a new question is in order so here we go:
Although horsed cavalry may have been considered by many at the time as clearly outdated, many horsed cavalry units were used in the SCW with good results, mostly by the National side. However, by the beginning of 1937 a small cavalry unit was designated to carry out a unique assignment, that no other cavalry unit carried out in the entire SCW. What cavalry unit was it, and what was the mission?

durb
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Re: The official AHF Spanish Civil War quiz thread

Postby durb » 20 Apr 2016 20:56

With the weeks and even months passed I guess that no one is going to answer this one. I tried to dig something but could not find anything to put forward as a suggestion. The question was not a bad one as it highlights the importance of "good old" cavalry in the SCW - although it looks outdated and oldfashioned when compared to more modern tank and aircraft experiments in the SCW the cavalry had still a considerable role to play in the SCW and deserves probably more attention. Anyway what was the cavalry unit and its mission?

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Ironmachine
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Re: The official AHF Spanish Civil War quiz thread

Postby Ironmachine » 21 Apr 2016 07:02

It was the 2nd "escuadrón" of the cavalry "tabor" of the Grupo de Fuerzas Regulares de Tetuan nº 1, which was picked to provide escort service at Franco's headquarters.


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