In search of a Map

Discussions on WW2 in the Pacific and the Sino-Japanese War.
OpanaPointer
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Re: In search of a Map

Post by OpanaPointer » 15 May 2021 19:04

Track down from Short to tenant commands. The bridges are infrastructure, so the Engineers should provide some bread crumbs. AND have in you looked at the Center of Military History?
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robdab
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Re: In search of a Map

Post by robdab » 15 May 2021 19:34

OpanaPointer wrote:
15 May 2021 19:04
Track down from Short to tenant commands. The bridges are infrastructure, so the Engineers should provide some bread crumbs. AND have in you looked at the Center of Military History?
Many thanks for those additional clues ! Will do so.

I wonder if the Oahu bridgeS map that I search for might have been in a martial law publication about Oahu as there were security sentries posted at most bridges to guard against sabotage ?

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Takao
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Re: In search of a Map

Post by Takao » 15 May 2021 22:04

You might also check out the scorched earth policies that remained in effect until late 1943.

robdab
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Re: In search of a Map

Post by robdab » 15 May 2021 22:34

Takao wrote:
15 May 2021 22:04
You might also check out the scorched earth policies that remained in effect until late 1943.
Will do so but IIRC those weren't developed / implemented until well after the Dec.7'41 attacks, when the American defenders of Oahu thought that the Japanese might be back for invasion purposes.

Ditto for the US Army's plans to use war gasses in the defense of Oahu.

OpanaPointer
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Re: In search of a Map

Post by OpanaPointer » 15 May 2021 23:46

robdab wrote:
15 May 2021 19:34
OpanaPointer wrote:
15 May 2021 19:04
Track down from Short to tenant commands. The bridges are infrastructure, so the Engineers should provide some bread crumbs. AND have in you looked at the Center of Military History?
Many thanks for those additional clues ! Will do so.

I wonder if the Oahu bridgeS map that I search for might have been in a martial law publication about Oahu as there were security sentries posted at most bridges to guard against sabotage ?
Check 24th and 25th Div. histories.
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OpanaPointer
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Re: In search of a Map

Post by OpanaPointer » 15 May 2021 23:48

robdab wrote:
15 May 2021 19:34

I wonder if the Oahu bridgeS map that I search for might have been in a martial law publication about Oahu as there were security sentries posted at most bridges to guard against sabotage ?
https://www.loc.gov/rr/frd/Military_Law ... _Green.pdf
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glenn239
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Re: In search of a Map

Post by glenn239 » 31 May 2021 15:07

robdab wrote:
15 May 2021 18:48
Thanks again Opana. As you recently pointed out, you spent 4 years wading thru those Hearings.
Most these days don't have 4 years of spare time to devote to searching those 40+ volumes.
Invading Oahu again, are we? :^)

I found the PHA volumes like mining for gold on the mountains. Endless repetition, shoddy layout, large sections of no interest, with interesting nuggets interspersed. The tactic I adapted was high speed scanning where a page was 'in' or 'out in a couple seconds of assessment. These days all the libraries are closed anyways, so its not like they're available.

An update on the early war Japanese front. The information online is getting better, sufficiently so that I've been able to assemble a picture of the shipping commitments of the early war Japanese 1st Phase offensive, to the extent that an estimate is generated for the whole show, (invasions and major troop movements, not supply or minor movements) - 5.8 million tons of shipping used for the 1st Phase up to and including Midway, between December 1941 and May 1942. Broken out by objective and by month.

Went through the TROM's of every IJN and IJA transport and aux. available to assemble the picture....

robdab
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Re: In search of a Map

Post by robdab » 31 May 2021 23:16

glenn239 wrote:
31 May 2021 15:07

Invading Oahu again, are we? :^)

I found the PHA volumes like mining for gold on the mountains. Endless repetition, shoddy layout, large sections of no interest, with interesting nuggets interspersed. The tactic I adapted was high speed scanning where a page was 'in' or 'out in a couple seconds of assessment. These days all the libraries are closed anyways, so its not like they're available.

An update on the early war Japanese front. The information online is getting better, sufficiently so that I've been able to assemble a picture of the shipping commitments of the early war Japanese 1st Phase offensive, to the extent that an estimate is generated for the whole show, (invasions and major troop movements, not supply or minor movements) - 5.8 million tons of shipping used for the 1st Phase up to and including Midway, between December 1941 and May 1942. Broken out by objective and by month.

Went through the TROM's of every IJN and IJA transport and aux. available to assemble the picture....
.
Yes indeed ... its an endless task ... stringing together some "What IF" Oahu scenarios at https://propnturret.com/tully/viewforum.php?f=19

Do you have a copy of the PHA Index book ? Not the greatest but every little aid helps.

Glad to hear that you made it thru covid-19 !!! I'm just recovering from my "dose" of it ... my fault for getting a haircut, I suspect. Signed in with the shop's pen and forgot to hand sanitize before eating a Costco hotdog later on ... really dumb !

And that you are still "fighting the good fight" wrt Invading Oahu ! I see that Operation Tinkerbell got locked as a "zombie thread" ... have you changed your mind and decided to further update it ?

My only Oahu research lately has been to delve into the HUGE stockpiles of WW1 vintage American chemical weapons stored on Oahu prior to Dec.7/41 and just how the US Army planned to use them there. Quite appalling actually.

Thanks for touching base ! I would like to continue doing so ?

Robert, now east of Toronto

glenn239
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Re: In search of a Map

Post by glenn239 » 01 Jun 2021 15:19

robdab wrote:
31 May 2021 23:16
Yes indeed ... its an endless task ... stringing together some "What IF" Oahu scenarios at https://propnturret.com/tully/viewforum.php?f=19
Ah, the old blockship hypothesis again. I've never been a fan of blockships. I picture the US engineers just blowing a passage through whatever obstruction there is within a couple weeks, even if against all odds it succeeded. Nothing that a couple hundred thousand pounds of TNT can't solve.
Do you have a copy of the PHA Index book ? Not the greatest but every little aid helps.
I recall the McMaster research library has the index PHA copy. No, it's not open now. Maybe by July, but with University hours, it might be September.
Glad to hear that you made it thru covid-19 !!! I'm just recovering from my "dose" of it ... my fault for getting a haircut, I suspect. Signed in with the shop's pen and forgot to hand sanitize before eating a Costco hotdog later on ... really dumb !
A haircut in Ontario in 2021?
And that you are still "fighting the good fight" wrt Invading Oahu ! I see that Operation Tinkerbell got locked as a "zombie thread" ... have you changed your mind and decided to further update it ?
Tinkerbell might have claimed the prize of being the most views of any locked thread on this site. :^) No, no intention of revisiting Tinkerbell specifically.
Thanks for touching base ! I would like to continue doing so ?
At some point I'll post an "Arranging the Deckchairs" thread using the 1st Phase shipping information. All sorts of discussions have happened WRT Japanese planning in variant 1st Phase operations, vague descriptions of shipping and timing. But now I've got enough handle on the logistical footprint of the 1st Phase as it actually played out to be able to describe alternatives to it.

robdab
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Re: In search of a Map

Post by robdab » 02 Jun 2021 00:23

Indeed, peace thru the application of high explosives. Agreed that block ships aren't forever but they CAN fulfill a short term need, quite cheaply.

OpanaPointer
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Re: In search of a Map

Post by OpanaPointer » 02 Jun 2021 01:10

There's an index to the Hearings. https://www.amazon.com/Investigations-A ... 0313268843 Smith sometimes uses the Congressional page numbers and sometimes the original transcript numbers. You may need to check both ways to find what you're looking for.
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Richard2020
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Re: In search of a Map

Post by Richard2020 » 12 Jun 2021 21:11

This one from Libarary of Congress is 1938 edition, not exactly what you look for - but a lot of nice details
https://www.loc.gov/resource/g4382o.ct0 ... 04,0.217,0

robdab
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Re: In search of a Map

Post by robdab » 14 Jun 2021 00:16

.
Many thanks Richard !

A 1938 map actually surveyed 1927 - 1930 but still far better than anything else that I have found so far ... from my PoV, the only two important pieces of info missing is that the railway line around Kaena Point (the NW tip of Oahu) was destroyed by a tropical storm a couple of years prior to Dec.7'41 and that there was another paved highway leading up to the ridge line of the Koolau Mountains from their western side, 4 - 5 miles north of the Pali Pass highway leading over that ridge line, which I did not previously know about.

Nice clear contour lines too !

Based on the river lines, I can infer most of the important highway and railway bridge locations as well.

And fill in the not included military installations data from other sources.

robdab

OpanaPointer
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Re: In search of a Map

Post by OpanaPointer » 14 Jun 2021 02:46

Have you contacted the Hawaiian Historical Society?
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robdab
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Re: In search of a Map

Post by robdab » 16 Jun 2021 02:15

Not yet ... but thanks for the idea !

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