MacArthur

Discussions on WW2 in the Pacific and the Sino-Japanese War.
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Takao
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Re: MacArthur

Post by Takao » 20 Nov 2021 19:46

Delta Tank wrote:
20 Nov 2021 13:29
mescal wrote:
31 Jul 2015 18:28
Kingfish wrote: Was Tarawa chosen solely because it held a completed airfield?
I strongly suspect it would have been chosen even without a complete airfield, as it was one of the very rare places in the Gilberts which had enough real estate to accommodate an airfield.
To All,

I discovered not to long ago that we did build an airfield on the island of Abemama which Is in the Tarawa Atoll and about 80 miles from Betio Island. We captured the island with approximately two platoons!

Read here: viewtopic.php?f=33&t=260082&hilit=Abemama

Mike
Congratulations! You get a cookie.

Now, can you name the other 4 US airfields the US built in the Gilberts(not including the one built on Tarawa)?

I believe you are missing the point...It was not because the US needed an operational airfield, but to deny the Japanese the use of theirs. So, that the US could build their airfields unhindered by Japanese air attack.

Delta Tank
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Re: MacArthur

Post by Delta Tank » 22 Nov 2021 21:44

Takao wrote:
20 Nov 2021 19:46
Delta Tank wrote:
20 Nov 2021 13:29
mescal wrote:
31 Jul 2015 18:28
Kingfish wrote: Was Tarawa chosen solely because it held a completed airfield?
I strongly suspect it would have been chosen even without a complete airfield, as it was one of the very rare places in the Gilberts which had enough real estate to accommodate an airfield.
To All,

I discovered not to long ago that we did build an airfield on the island of Abemama which Is in the Tarawa Atoll and about 80 miles from Betio Island. We captured the island with approximately two platoons!

Read here: viewtopic.php?f=33&t=260082&hilit=Abemama

Mike
Congratulations! You get a cookie.

Now, can you name the other 4 US airfields the US built in the Gilberts(not including the one built on Tarawa)?

I believe you are missing the point...It was not because the US needed an operational airfield, but to deny the Japanese the use of theirs. So, that the US could build their airfields unhindered by Japanese air attack.
Takao,

No you are missing the point and therefore you do not get a cookie!! Do you mean that the only way to deny the enemy the use of their airfield is to capture it? Are there not other courses of action open that would accomplish the same purpose? How many Japanese air units were stationed at the airfield on Betio Island? Fuel supplies? Maintenance units? Spare parts? Ammunition?

Mike

Delta Tank
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Re: MacArthur

Post by Delta Tank » 23 Nov 2021 01:41

Takao,
Information below found here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_St ... cific_Area
GILBERT ISLANDS
Abemama Airfield, Abamama Atoll, Gilbert Islands
0°29′27″N 173°49′43″E
Seventh Air Force
30th Bombardment Group, Heavy 4 January–19 March 1944
27th Bombardment Squadron, Heavy, operated from Abemama 26 February-14 March 1944
392d Bombardment Squadron, Heavy, 10 January-16 March 1944
9th Troop Carrier Squadron, Seventh Air Force, 27 March–3 August 1944
47th Bombardment Squadron (Medium), 41st Bombardment Group (Medium), 22 December 1943 – 20 April 1944
48th Bombardment Squadron (Medium), 41st Bombardment Group (Medium), 22 December 1943 – 23 April 1944
Bonriki Airfield (Mullinix Field). Bonriki Island, Tarawa Atoll, Gilbert Islands
01°22′53.89″N 173°08′49.33″E
Seventh Air Force
Headquarters, VII Bomber Command, January–March 1944
11th Bombardment Group (Heavy), 28 January–4 April 1944
26th Bombardment Squadron (Heavy), 25 January-13 April 1944
98th Bombardment Squadron (Heavy), 20 January-2 April 1944
431st Bombardment Squadron (Heavy), 16 January-30 March 1944
41st Bombardment Group (Medium), 17 December 1943 – 23 April 1944
396th Bombardment Squadron (Medium), 28 January-19 April 1944
820th Bombardment Squadron (Medium), 24 December 1943 – 26 April 1944
Makin Airfield, Butaritari Island, Makin Atoll, Gilbert Islands
03°05′12.48″N 172°48′47.74″E
Seventh Air Force
41st Bombardment Group (Medium), 24 April-13 October 1944
47th Bombardment Squadron (Medium), 41st Bombardment Group (Medium), 21 April-4 November 1944
48th Bombardment Squadron (Medium), 41st Bombardment Group (Medium), 24 April-13 October 1944 (operated from Saipan 23 July-21 August 1944)
396th Bombardment Squadron (Medium), 41st Bombardment Group (Medium), 24 December 1943 – 19 April 1944
820th Bombardment Squadron (Medium), 27 April-13 October 1944
38th Bombardment Squadron, Heavy, 30th Bombardment Group, Heavy,(operated from Makin Atoll 26 February-22 March 1944)
531st Fighter Bomber Squadron, Seventh Air Force, 18 December 1943 – 17 February 1944
531st Fighter Squadron, Seventh Air Force, 18 February–March 1944
Hawkins Field (Tarawa), Betio Island, Tarawa Atoll, Gilbert Islands
01°21′22.49″N 172°55′48.39″E
Seventh Air Force
Headquarters, VII Bomber Command, January 1944
11th Bombardment Group (Heavy), 14–27 January 1944

Mike

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Takao
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Re: MacArthur

Post by Takao » 23 Nov 2021 22:15

Delta Tank wrote:
22 Nov 2021 21:44
Takao,

No you are missing the point and therefore you do not get a cookie!! Do you mean that the only way to deny the enemy the use of their airfield is to capture it? Are there not other courses of action open that would accomplish the same purpose? How many Japanese air units were stationed at the airfield on Betio Island? Fuel supplies? Maintenance units? Spare parts? Ammunition?

Mike
This is the point you are missing. You are thinking only in terms of a "base."

It is not the air units that were based at Betio that were the worry. It was the air units the could fly in from other Japanese bases, refuel, and bomb what ever American targets are in the vicinity and fly back. This only requires fuel supplies, not much maintenance or spare parts - maybe a stockpile of ammunition. This is why the fast carriers were out raiding airfields within flying distance of Betio before the invasion began. The fuel & ammunition would not even have to be stored near the base, simply trucked in from depots just before the planes arrived.

To neutralize Betio while the Americans constructed their own airfields would have been a good 2-4 month job of constant fast carrier activity & remaining on station. Unfortunately, the fleet train was not yet up to provide this level of support.

Now, do you understand the problem better.

Delta Tank
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Re: MacArthur

Post by Delta Tank » 26 Nov 2021 00:51

Takao wrote:
23 Nov 2021 22:15
Delta Tank wrote:
22 Nov 2021 21:44
Takao,

No you are missing the point and therefore you do not get a cookie!! Do you mean that the only way to deny the enemy the use of their airfield is to capture it? Are there not other courses of action open that would accomplish the same purpose? How many Japanese air units were stationed at the airfield on Betio Island? Fuel supplies? Maintenance units? Spare parts? Ammunition?

Mike
This is the point you are missing. You are thinking only in terms of a "base."

It is not the air units that were based at Betio that were the worry. It was the air units the could fly in from other Japanese bases, refuel, and bomb what ever American targets are in the vicinity and fly back. This only requires fuel supplies, not much maintenance or spare parts - maybe a stockpile of ammunition. This is why the fast carriers were out raiding airfields within flying distance of Betio before the invasion began. The fuel & ammunition would not even have to be stored near the base, simply trucked in from depots just before the planes arrived.

To neutralize Betio while the Americans constructed their own airfields would have been a good 2-4 month job of constant fast carrier activity & remaining on station. Unfortunately, the fleet train was not yet up to provide this level of support.

Now, do you understand the problem better.
Takao,

How many Japanese Air units were stationed at Betio? If you crater the runway every other day how useful is the airfield on Betio? I give you permission to think!!

Mike

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Takao
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Re: MacArthur

Post by Takao » 27 Nov 2021 21:58

Yes, Delta...Think.

It's a good 30 days+ that the carriers must remain on station, probably more like 45-60, till the Bomber Squadrons get organized & such.

The invasion was over in 3 days.

Delta Tank
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Re: MacArthur

Post by Delta Tank » 28 Nov 2021 03:15

Takao wrote:
27 Nov 2021 21:58
Yes, Delta...Think.

It's a good 30 days+ that the carriers must remain on station, probably more like 45-60, till the Bomber Squadrons get organized & such.

The invasion was over in 3 days.
Takao,

Still no cookie for you!! Think! I gave you permission to think, please do so! There were NO permanent Japanese Air Units assigned to Betio Island. You don’t need carries to suppress an airfield! Bomber missions against Betio Island:

https://pacificwrecks.com/airfields/kir ... arawa.html

For the last 78 years marines and others have been trying to rationalize the slaughter of good men on a worthless piece of real estate, it just doesn’t fly. No pun intended!

Mike

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Takao
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Re: MacArthur

Post by Takao » 29 Nov 2021 15:00

WOW! A maximum effort of 20 B-24s...Bet that damage was repaired in an hour.

And you are the one telling me to think.

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Takao
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Re: MacArthur

Post by Takao » 29 Nov 2021 15:01

You have any BDAs to back that up? Japanese reports of damage inflicted would be better.

Delta Tank
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Re: MacArthur

Post by Delta Tank » 30 Nov 2021 02:40

Takao wrote:
29 Nov 2021 15:01
You have any BDAs to back that up? Japanese reports of damage inflicted would be better.
It doesn’t take much to deny the use of a small airfield that doesn’t have an assigned air unit. We somehow suppressed all those airfields in France before D-Day without seizing one of them. Maybe the US Navy should of asked the Army Air Force how they were going to do that, and those airfields were not isolated, they were on a continent, you know a really large land mass!

You are arguing a lost cause. It was a stupid operation, it was a stupid operation, it was a stupid operation.

Mike

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