70 Minutes Before Pearl Harbor: Kota Bharu 1941

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Lance Olsen
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Re: 70 Minutes Before Pearl Harbor: Kota Bharu 1941

Postby Lance Olsen » 02 Jun 2011 17:08

With reference to "0610 Singapore air attack" other sources have a different timing concerning the air-raid on Singapore --

"Seventeen Japanese Navy bombers attacked Singapore – at 04:30 (local time) on 8 December 1941, killing 61 and wounding more than 700 – just 2 hours and 40 minutes after Japan dropped the first bomb in its attack upon Pearl Harbor." see --
http://hubpages.com/hub/WWIIDiditbeginatPearlHarbor

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Re: 70 Minutes Before Pearl Harbor: Kota Bharu 1941

Postby OpanaPointer » 02 Jun 2011 21:54

Lance Olsen wrote:With reference to "0610 Singapore air attack" other sources have a different timing concerning the air-raid on Singapore --

"Seventeen Japanese Navy bombers attacked Singapore – at 04:30 (local time) on 8 December 1941, killing 61 and wounding more than 700 – just 2 hours and 40 minutes after Japan dropped the first bomb in its attack upon Pearl Harbor." see --
http://hubpages.com/hub/WWIIDiditbeginatPearlHarbor

Wiki says the attack was over by 0500. I can go into my stacks for more info if requested.
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Lance Olsen
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Re: 70 Minutes Before Pearl Harbor: Kota Bharu 1941

Postby Lance Olsen » 03 Jun 2011 02:28

"Wiki says the attack was over by 0500" -- logical since the attack began at at 04:30

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Peter H
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Re: 70 Minutes Before Pearl Harbor: Kota Bharu 1941

Postby Peter H » 06 Jun 2011 11:41

I think 0610 is Tokyo time.

This pic from Colin Smith's Singapore Burning shows Japanese infantry leaving Hainan for Malaya landings.
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Re: 70 Minutes Before Pearl Harbor: Kota Bharu 1941

Postby OpanaPointer » 06 Jun 2011 12:30

Peter H wrote:I think 0610 is Tokyo time.

The Imperial forces ran on Tokyo Time wherever they were. Not much of an issue when they were expanding north and south, but for them the raid on Pearl Harbor happened on Dec. 8th, a Monday. This is why the "action" message stated "Niitaka nobore, 12-8".
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Lance Olsen
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Re: 70 Minutes Before Pearl Harbor: Kota Bharu 1941

Postby Lance Olsen » 06 Jun 2011 13:24

""Seventeen Japanese Navy bombers attacked Singapore – at 04:30 (local time) on 8 December 1941..." -- is unambiguous on this point.

See complete article at --
http://numistamp.com/World-War-2-%E2%80 ... arbor-.php

And why the pages were written --
http://numistamp.com/Why-these-WW2-pages-.php

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Peter H
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Re: 70 Minutes Before Pearl Harbor: Kota Bharu 1941

Postby Peter H » 09 Jun 2011 09:00

Imperial Japanese Navy Air Assault on Singapore
http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/F ... eo/00.shtm

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Re: 70 Minutes Before Pearl Harbor: Kota Bharu 1941

Postby OpanaPointer » 27 Jun 2011 12:42

Zaf1 wrote:I think I read somewhere that the attack on Pearl Harbor was supposed to take place earlier than the one at Kota Bharu, but there was some delays in getting the aircraft carriers align to enable the planes to take off properly into the wind, getting into formation or that sort of thing.

Nothing I've read suggests that. The planes started launching at the earliest possible moment, first light. Kota Bharu was definitely ahead of schedule, but not critically so, the location helped keep the attackers from tipping the hand of the Kido Butai.
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Re: 70 Minutes Before Pearl Harbor: Kota Bharu 1941

Postby aghart » 24 Jul 2011 22:49

For what it's worth, I think that the Japanese regiment that landed at Kota Bharu has never been given enough praise by we in the west. The defenders performed very well and against most other enemies might well have driven the invaders back into the sea! I doubt that any allied force of comparable size and equally lightly equipped would have succeeded, Indeed I doubt the operation would have been attempted by any other army without a huge increase in support. On paper I think that Japanese should have lost this battle given that they were so lightly equipped, only the magnificent performance of these superbly trained and motivated infantrymen gained a victory.

Elsewhere in Malaya/Singapore we look at a catalogue of British errors and blunders. Not at Kota Bharu! this was a Japanese triumph not a British failure.

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Re: 70 Minutes Before Pearl Harbor: Kota Bharu 1941

Postby Lance Olsen » 25 Jul 2011 15:27

"I doubt that any allied force of comparable size and equally lightly equipped would have succeeded...I think that Japanese should have lost this battle given that they were so lightly equipped" -- there's a chapter on very, very lightly equipped troops fighting against the crack troops of an elite division at Tengxian, and another chapter on ill-equipped hodgepodge troops fighting against the crack troops of another elite division at Linyi in my book, see Preview at --
http://numistamp.com/Taierzhuang-1938-- ... e-1%29.php
(2 webpages -- use the link at the bottom of Page 1 to go to Page 2)

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Re: 70 Minutes Before Pearl Harbor: Kota Bharu 1941

Postby Fatboy Coxy » 27 Jul 2011 17:22

aghart wrote:For what it's worth, I think that the Japanese regiment that landed at Kota Bharu has never been given enough praise by we in the west. The defenders performed very well and against most other enemies might well have driven the invaders back into the sea! I doubt that any allied force of comparable size and equally lightly equipped would have succeeded, Indeed I doubt the operation would have been attempted by any other army without a huge increase in support. On paper I think that Japanese should have lost this battle given that they were so lightly equipped, only the magnificent performance of these superbly trained and motivated infantrymen gained a victory.

Elsewhere in Malaya/Singapore we look at a catalogue of British errors and blunders. Not at Kota Bharu! this was a Japanese triumph not a British failure.


I would give this a cautious Japanese triumph, because although the response of the troops landed was good, the planning was poor. I'm not aware of any pre landing shore bombardment, and the troops carried no major equipment to deal with the barbwire fencing, having to dig in with their hands in many instances. Despite their awareness of something like the Bangalore torpedo, none, to my knowledge, were used. Only the ability to shift the attack up the creeks, and flank the main beach defences saved them. And even this could have been a disaster if the British had enough steel rope for a Boom, as Gen Barstow had requested.

Steve

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Zaf1
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Re: 70 Minutes Before Pearl Harbor: Kota Bharu 1941

Postby Zaf1 » 28 May 2013 19:20

Relics dug up at Mysore's camp at Machang airfield, Blanco
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Zaf1
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Re: 70 Minutes Before Pearl Harbor: Kota Bharu 1941

Postby Zaf1 » 01 Jun 2013 10:42

Hi

I had dug up metal spikes from the sand near a British pillbox site on the beach. I wonder if this could be a guy wire for supporting the main double apron barbed wire fences.

Thank you

Zaf
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Re: 70 Minutes Before Pearl Harbor: Kota Bharu 1941

Postby RichardGough » 09 Mar 2017 11:44

Hello Zaf,

I have bits of information regarding the Cairn Gorm Mission, more specifically an earlier Cairn Gorm I Mission in Pahang may have been unsuccessful. The Cain Gorm II Mission was in Johore. The OSS had a liaison officer with SOE in Ceylon. I would welcome email contact with you on this subject, as I am currently writing a book about SOE in Malaya.

Many thanks,
Richard Gough

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Zaf1
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Re: 70 Minutes Before Pearl Harbor: Kota Bharu 1941

Postby Zaf1 » 05 Jun 2017 14:48

Hi Richard
I am happy to hear from you, thank you. My email is zafraniarifin10@gmail.com

Regards
Zaf


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