Is there a reason why some of you guys must continuously flame the message boards?
dmsdbo wrote:It seems that the general consensus opinion amongst British, Canadian, Australian, NZ, SA vets is that the Americans had the best allied equipment, and there were good individual US soldiers and units (82/101 AB, Marines, vets from North Afrcia/Sicily), but on a grand scale they were not as good as the Commonwealth troops
But not a general consensus amongst the enemy. After he was wounded in Normandy, Erwin Rommel drew a point-by-point comparison of the American and British Commonwealth armies and how they performed in North Africa and France. It was not very flattering to America's allies.
After World War I, Erich von Ludendorff wrote:
".....It was assuredly the Americans who bore the heaviest brunt of the fighting on the whole battle front during the last months of the war. The German field army found them much more aggressive in attack than either the English or the French....."
Chadwick wrote:
It really saddens me to hear such disparaging comments come from Australia when my family members have only said good things about your country.
I agree and since Brian says you shouldn't take it personally, he won't mind if I quote several Australian researchers who can separate the facts from the flag-waving and chest-pounding in this forum.
Brian Ross wrote:
The US Army cops a lot of criticism. Some of it deserved. What is well known is that it is, all too often, very wasteful of its men, usually adopting tactics which would never be utilised in other armies. Some of them such as the use of massive, overwhelming material superiority are only useable by a nation which has the vast economy that your's does. Some, such as the use of its men essentially as "bait" to draw the enemy out where massive overwhelming firepower can eliminate him, sounds good, unless you're the bloke who's the bait.
Whatever the drawbacks of General Westmoreland's search and destroy strategy, it worked better than the enclave strategy pushed by General Wilton. Australia's Vietnam policy and the performance of their army has been condemned by your own historians.
From Peter King, 'Australia's Vietnam' (1983):
".....Australia had earlier taken the part of inciter and goad of its ally, yet while the Australian government wished and plotted for the Vietnam War before its entry, Australia became involved only marginally in the combat when America's war began in earnest....."
".....Frank Frost's painstaking evaluation of the military performance of the Australian Army Task Force in Vietnam brings out two serious failures of Australian policy. First, there was a lack of overall political or strategic guidance given to the Task Force command. Should it engage in battles with the main-force units of the guerrilla enemy, or undertake 'pacification' in the villages of the Phuoc Tuy province? The Task Force was not properly equipped for either role and, perhaps fortunately, it performed badly in both....."
Frost also wrote that in May 1971, a senior Task Force officer told
The Australian that all villages in the Phuoc Tuy province still had a Vietcong chapter and party organization. He added that "the strongest element in the province has always been, and still is, the Vietcong infrastructure which is very difficult to come to grips with".
From Ian Mackay, 'Australians in Vietnam' (1968):
".....in Phuoc Tuy, a village taken today is reinfiltrated tomorrow. There is no way in the world of guarding every village, every square foot of land, and therefore no quick way of defeating the Vietcong....."
From John Murphy, 'Harvest of Fear: a History of Australia's Vietnam War' (1994):
".....The networks connecting the villages with the guerrillas tended to be re-established as soon as the cordon was removed....."
After the war, Lt. Colonel I. R. W. Brumfield, commander of Australian 1 RAR, admitted that the search and destroy policy used by the 173rd Airborne Brigade was superior to the Australian 'clear and hold' policy -- which was doomed from the beginning because not enough troops were available to hold most of the cleared areas after a search.
Even the official historian agreed on that point. From Ian McNeill, 'To Long Tan' (1993):
".....Westmoreland's endeavour to put the enemy off balance and the fire brigade tactics of 173 Brigade appeared to be more appropriate in 1965 than the slow and painstaking approach favoured by the Australians, which needed time and favourable conditions to achieve results....." .
In the first 18 months of combat, the Australians tallied less than 375 Vietcong dead in a province that was crawling with thousands of VC. The majority of enemy casualties were counted in just one battle at Long Tan, and most were hit by Allied artillery fire.
But, as you advised, don't take these criticisms too personally. The Australian Army's official line often paints a different picture, and is sometimes biased to the point where reputation is more important than the truth. Not much credit is given to the air power, artillery and tanks that so often saved Australian troops, especially when the help was delivered by American forces.
Brian Ross wrote:
Australian opinion was important when America needed Australia - first to provide fighting troops and a base then later, for something to keep Macarthur out of the US, so that he couldn't screw up the US Army
Those comments have no basis in reality.
1) Prime Minister John Curtin publicly appealed to the United States to protect Australia from Japan -- a country then viewed by Australians as the latest version of the "Yellow Horde". The paranoia of your politicians was legendary (see the White Australia immigration policy). The rise of communism guaranteed that China, Indonesia and Vietnam were added to Australia's Catalogue of Yellow Horde Hysteria.
2) MacArthur accomplished more than any Allied officer, with modest resources, and low casualties. Australia's best known general was not respected by the British or U.S. Joint Chiefs -- Field Marshall Alan Brooke said that Thomas Blamey was "entirely drink-sodden" at their first official meeting, and Sir Keith Murdoch called him "Boozy Blamey".
G'day mate,
Evan
" MacArthur has outshone George Marshall,
Ike Eisenhower, Patton, Montgomery, and
all other American and British generals "
~ Field Marshall Alan Brooke, 1945