Why not "besiege" Japan?

[DocHawkeye]

*sigh*. This kind of obstinate doesn't even make me angry, it just disappoints and exasperates me. When confronted with the open horror of uttering morally bankrupt cliches like "they should be thankful" you just fall back on demanding more sources. More sources for what?! I know that you do this because "more sources bro" has worked as a veil for you on internet forums plenty of times but you're clearly shocked and confused that anyone would demand a proper explanation from you rather than engage in another pedantic quote box war. For my part, I think you're suffering from some kind of severe emotional trauma and that i'm being charitable in thinking that rather than cosigning you off to legitimate extremism, Sid. That's just my opinion.

[OpanaPointer]

The diminishment of suffering on the Japanese was incidental to ending the war quickly. It was to their advantage but the goal of the Allies was to stop the suffering of everyone. The war in China was still killing people, people were starving to death in POW camps, even those housing only civilians.

One benefit of a quick end to the war for the Japanese was that they avoided the bifurcation Germany suffered. Marshal Vasilevsky* was ready to fling an amphibious assault at Hokkaido on Aug. 24, but Stalin canceled it on the 21st. Given the reluctance of most parties in the area to give up ground once taken the Home Islands may have been reduced by one if they had stalled much longer.

[Gorque]

I found this article from the Diplomat which offered an additional rationale as to why the H&N shortened the conflict:

The atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki gave Japanese leaders the excuse they needed to take the absolutely unthinkable action of surrendering. Indeed, the atomic bombings figured prominently in Emperor Hirohito’s unprecedented speech to the nation announcing Japan’s surrender. “The enemy has begun to employ a new and most cruel bomb, the power of which to do damage is, indeed, incalculable, taking the toll of many innocent lives. Should we continue to fight, it would not only result in an ultimate collapse and obliteration of the Japanese nation, but also it would lead to the total extinction of human civilization,” the Emperor told a stunned Japanese nation (stunned partly because they had never heard the Emperor speak and partly because they couldn’t believe Japan was surrendering.)

Without the atomic excuse, Japan’s leaders would have ordered that the military continue to fight despite the Soviet’s declaration of war against Tokyo. The fighting that would have ensued before they surrendered would have resulted in far more deaths than the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings. After all, given the amount of deaths Japan had endured during the war, the leaders could not have surrendered after only 200,000 soldiers were killed.

https://thediplomat.com/2014/08/how-hir ... -of-lives/

[OpanaPointer]

The Big Six (or "Inner Cabinet") were four to two for continuing the war until Gen. Anami's assistant returned from Hiroshima and reported the utter devastation there. Nagasaki was the final straw for Anami and he joined the two cabinet members wanting peace. This left the "Liaison Conference" deadlocked for the first time and they had to go to the Emperor (the "Imperial Conference") without a finished statement of national purpose. Hirohito seized the rare chance and said that the country must seek a settlement with the Allies.

Taken from Japan's Longest Day, created by the Pacific War Research Society.

[Sid Guttridge]

Hi DocHawkeye,

You are still failing to answer the question.

You posted, ".....the idea that the Americans were using the A-Bomb is an apocryphal invention of post-war politics to me."

As things stand, without some supporting evidence, the only "apocryphal invention" is in danger of being your own!

I ask again, what is your source for this proposition?

I am presuming that you have some evidence, so what is it?

Cheers,

Sid

[OpanaPointer]

Hi DocHawkeye,

You are still failing to answer the question.

You posted, ".....the idea that the Americans were using the A-Bomb is an apocryphal invention of post-war politics to me."

As things stand, without some supporting evidence, the only "apocryphal invention" is in danger of being your own!

I ask again, what is your source for this proposition?

I am presuming that you have some evidence, so what is it?

Cheers,

Sid

Quote fail, Sid.

but the idea that the Americans were using the A-Bomb to diminish the suffering of the Japanese is an apocryphal invention of post-war politics to me

[Gorque]

"One morning I shot an elephant in my pajamas. How he got into my pajamas I'll never know."

[David Thompson]

For interested readers -- There are related forum discussion of the atomic bombings at:

Hiroshima and Nagasaki -- War crimes?
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=9209
Lessons of Hiroshima
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=5507
The Decision to Use the Atomic Bomb (1959)
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=66910

[OpanaPointer]

And if anybody needs book recommendations I have about a dozen and a half books on the topic. Including finger-wagging books.

[R Leonard]

On 1 June the Interim Committee made its report on whether the bomb should be used against Japan. The report recommended that not only should the bomb be used but that it be used without specific warning, as soon as possible, and against a target that would clearly show its devastating strength.

I also received this report from the panel of scientists, as advisors and the Interim Committee:

“We propose no technical demonstration likely to bring an end to the war; we see no acceptable alternative to direct military use.”

In bringing these recommendations to me, Stimson said he was in agreement with them. His opinion was that there would be no surrender from the Japanese Emperor and his military Advisors unless we could deliver a tremendous shock. He said that an atom bomb attack would do this, and save many more times the lives it would cost, for the Japanese as well as for our forces.

"The Atomic Bomb",Truman Papers

Jeez, I know where to find it . . . guess ol' Hawkeye ain't as sharp-eyed as the original.

And if you have not read Richard Frank's Downfall cover to cover, twice, you've not a clue what was going on in the spring and summer of 1945.

[OpanaPointer]

Innumerable supportive documents available for those who have the will to find them. Truman and the Hiroshima Cult has a lot of interesting information.

[Gorque]

And if anybody needs book recommendations I have about a dozen and a half books on the topic. Including finger-wagging books.

Using the analogy "With a name like Smuckers; you know its got to be good"

With a name like Opana Pointer, you know he knows the Pacific Theater.

[Truckman]

With a name like Opana Pointer, you know he knows the Pacific Theater.

And all this time I thought Ipana Painter was the guy who painted the Ipana toothpaste ads on highway billboards...I gotta get these glasses fixed... ...Ben

[OpanaPointer]

Silly buggers!

[Sid Guttridge]

Hi Opanapointer,

You are right.

I correct it in the following post.

Thanks,

Sid.