Submarine tactics against warships

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Felix C
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Re: Submarine tactics against warships

#16

Post by Felix C » 28 Oct 2020, 17:36

Japanese commander wrote he had little time to prepare as the Indy came out into the moonlight. He calculated 11 knots and was lucky.

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Re: Submarine tactics against warships

#17

Post by Felix C » 28 Oct 2020, 17:36

I would reconfirm HMS Unbroken vs. 25knot Italian ships. Do not have the Mars book handy. That would confirm it.

To add HMS Dunedin was making 17 knots and traveling away from U124 when torpedoed at extreme range. A lucky hit or hits for the German. Possibly the longest range hit of the war for a submarine torpedo.


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Takao
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Re: Submarine tactics against warships

#18

Post by Takao » 05 Nov 2020, 22:47

Felix C wrote:
28 Oct 2020, 17:36
Japanese commander wrote he had little time to prepare as the Indy came out into the moonlight. He calculated 11 knots and was lucky.
Huh? Little time?

Hashimoto had 25 minutes from first sighting to the first torpedo leaving it's tube. Indy was first sighted at approximately 10,000 meters distant, and Hashimoto closed to about 1,500 meters.

While he did underestimate the speed - 11 knots instead of 16-17 knots, this is hardly an egregious failure on his part. Further, the spread of torpedoes made up for this underestimation.

Luck had nothing to do with the matter.

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Takao
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Re: Submarine tactics against warships

#19

Post by Takao » 05 Nov 2020, 23:06

Felix C wrote:
28 Oct 2020, 17:36
I would reconfirm HMS Unbroken vs. 25knot Italian ships. Do not have the Mars book handy. That would confirm it.

To add HMS Dunedin was making 17 knots and traveling away from U124 when torpedoed at extreme range. A lucky hit or hits for the German. Possibly the longest range hit of the war for a submarine torpedo.
Add the caveat "aimed"...

I-19 hit NORTH CAROLINA & O'BRIEN at about 6 miles distance, but I-19 was not aiming at these ships. I-19's target was the carrier WASP. Torpeoes meant for WASP missed and continued on their run towards another US task group operating some distance from WASP's group.

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Re: Submarine tactics against warships

#20

Post by Felix C » 06 Nov 2020, 22:02

Takao wrote:
05 Nov 2020, 22:47
Felix C wrote:
28 Oct 2020, 17:36
Japanese commander wrote he had little time to prepare as the Indy came out into the moonlight. He calculated 11 knots and was lucky.
Huh? Little time?

Hashimoto had 25 minutes from first sighting to the first torpedo leaving it's tube. Indy was first sighted at approximately 10,000 meters distant, and Hashimoto closed to about 1,500 meters.

While he did underestimate the speed - 11 knots instead of 16-17 knots, this is hardly an egregious failure on his part. Further, the spread of torpedoes made up for this underestimation.

Luck had nothing to do with the matter.
That is total time. His first approach was not ideal and he had to remanuever to fire.

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Takao
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Re: Submarine tactics against warships

#21

Post by Takao » 06 Nov 2020, 23:00

Felix C wrote:
06 Nov 2020, 22:02
That is total time. His first approach was not ideal and he had to remanuever to fire.
There is no second approach shown on Hashimoto's map.
Image

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Re: Submarine tactics against warships

#22

Post by Felix C » 06 Nov 2020, 23:22

looks like two approaches to me.

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Takao
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Re: Submarine tactics against warships

#23

Post by Takao » 06 Nov 2020, 23:39

Shot on the first and coup de gras if necessary. He still had the manned Kaiten, but no torpedoes.

Remember, he identified the Indy as a battleship.

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Re: Submarine tactics against warships

#24

Post by Felix C » 06 Nov 2020, 23:45

Takao wrote:
06 Nov 2020, 23:39
Shot on the first and coup de gras if necessary. He still had the manned Kaiten, but no torpedoes.

Remember, he identified the Indy as a battleship.
You are correct. Japanese TROM site is incorrect. thks

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Mark in Cleveland, Tn.
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Re: Submarine tactics against warships

#25

Post by Mark in Cleveland, Tn. » 15 Nov 2020, 02:45

TheMarcksPlan wrote:
04 Jul 2020, 12:31
I'm having trouble finding accounts of the successful sinking of fast warships by submarines, most of which occurred in the Pacific.

In the (pre-'43) BoA the prevailing tactics were clear: use Uboat surface speed to catch up to convoys at night. Did subs rely on luck/strategy of positioning to sink the numerous fast warships they claimed in WW2?

Can anyone point me in the right direction?
In reply to your past dated post ISO, the comments to this search are great, I read a book called **Shinano**https://www.ebay.com/i/274554961418?chn ... ceafa5ea92 a fast read and ok.. I enjoyed the parts written by the USS Archer-Fish C.O. on how he tracked the ship from first contact to final victory(sinking) and the problems the Archer-Fish faced in tracking and other issues. Buy it, worth a fast read, and NOT a really detailed narrative, but gives you a real on how a sub tracked a kill

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