Douglas MacArthur was no Caesar

[Richard Anderson]

Sigh...Douglas MacArthur's retirement date was 31 December 1937, two years after he took on the job in the Philippines. He was a double-dipper, taking his pay from the War Department as a major general acting as Military Advisor to the Commonwealth Government, as well as drawing pay from the Commonwealth Government as field marshal.

So his employment by the Commonwealth was a "side hustle" until 1 January 1938. It returned to being a "side hustle" on 26 July 1941 when Roosevelt recalled him to active service.

Quezon offered Eisenhower an honorarium on 20 June 1942. It was turned down.

[Richard Anderson]

I understand you reluctance to praise Spector's book. Or offer reasons for its "greatness"

I have no reluctance to praise Spector's book nor any inclination to do so. Nor do I feel a need to offer reasons for its greatness or shallowness, since I have said no such things. To refresh your memory, what I said was "No, I am usually indifferent to most secondary sources, but your lazy mans critique of Spector says quite a bit about you and nothing about Spector. You appear to be confusing daveshoup2MD's criticism of your ignorant dismissal of Spector's scholarship as "left-wing slant" as argumentum ab auctoritate."

Are all your arguments straw men?

[daveshoup2MD]

Sigh...Douglas MacArthur's retirement date was 31 December 1937, two years after he took on the job in the Philippines. He was a double-dipper, taking his pay from the War Department as a major general acting as Military Advisor to the Commonwealth Government, as well as drawing pay from the Commonwealth Government as field marshal.

So his employment by the Commonwealth was a "side hustle" until 1 January 1938. It returned to being a "side hustle" on 26 July 1941 when Roosevelt recalled him to active service.

Quezon offered Eisenhower an honorarium on 20 June 1942. It was turned down.

Nice work if you can get it. Especially with the wife and kid and the penthouse... :roll:

[rcocean]

Sigh...Douglas MacArthur's retirement date was 31 December 1937, two years after he took on the job in the Philippines. He was a double-dipper, taking his pay from the War Department as a major general acting as Military Advisor to the Commonwealth Government, as well as drawing pay from the Commonwealth Government as field marshal.

So his employment by the Commonwealth was a "side hustle" until 1 January 1938. It returned to being a "side hustle" on 26 July 1941 when Roosevelt recalled him to active service.

As I've stated before. If MacArthur was motivated by money, he simply would've gone to work on Wall Street in 1935, As Dr. James states in his 3 volume autobiograhy, Big Mac was offered any number of lucrative offers. And I'm not even talking about the $100,000 he turned down from Doubleday to write his memoirs in the late 30s. BTWm Eisenhower remarked that MacArthur could've succeeded in any field he chose. Which explains the the wall street offers.

In any cae, the only way FDR could get MacArthur to go to the Philppines in 1935, was to lie to him and promise the High commissioner slot, and then lie to him again about not being subject to the usual 2 year rotation. AND allow him to get money from the Philippine Government. That's why when Quezon gave Sutherland and MacArthur $$$ in 1942 both FDR and Ickes approved it. You can be damn sure a MacArthur hater like ickes (who LOVED to destroy anyone he disliked) would've only approved payment if he absolutely had to under US law or agreement.

But this has been known forever. The real question is why do the informed Macarthur haters keep repeating something that isn't true? Curious - could there be another motive then historical truth? I wonder.

[paulrward]

Hello All :

Actually, the Eisenhowers and the Quezon's were close, personal friends. Both
Eisenhower and Quezon enjoyed playing cards, ( Poker with the guys, and then,
when Mamie joined him in Manila, the two couples frequently played Contract Bridge )

When Eisenhower applied to return to the United States at the end of his second additional
year of service, Quezon found out about it, and approached Eisenhower with an offer of
becoming a ' Personal Military Aide ' to Quezon, with what one writer has described as
a salary that was termed ' a blank emolument ' - in other words, Eisenhower would name
his own salary !

Eisenhower turned it down. He was also offered a job with a Jewish Relocation Agency,
at a salary of $ 60,000.00 per year, to assist in locating nations that would be willing to
accept Jewish Refugees. He also turned this offer down, but did arrange with Quezon
so that more than 1000 Jewish Refugees were relocated to the Philippines between
1940 and 41- though, considering the fact that the Japanese then occupied the Philippines,
this might not have been to their advantage.

When Quezon arrived in the United States in 1942, he looked up Eisenhower, and made the
offer of $ 60,000.00 in gold - which Eisenhower refused, as he was then a serving officer, and
wished to avoid any charges of favoritism.

However, the earlier payments made between 1936 and 1940 WERE accepted by Eisenhower.

Does this mean that Ike also had a ' Side Hustle ' ? Nice work if you can get it, especially with
a wife living in an expensive apartment in a fashionable High Rise, and a son in private school....


Respectfully :

Paul R. Ward

[EKB]

Douglas MacArthur's employment by the Philippine Government was NOT a ' Side Hustle ', he was a retired military officer. As such, he simply gained employment as a Civilian, working to organize and train the Philippine Army.

That’s one way to frame it.

But only if you dismiss that MacArthur accepted a lump sum payment from a foreign official, worth $500,000 (or $8.6 million if adjusted for inflation) while he was in uniform with the U.S. armed forces. Quezon was spirited to Australia after transferring funds to MacArthur, which makes it appear that a bonus incentive, gratuity, or bribery might have influenced the total amount paid.

It was claimed, by some parties, that this transaction was no more than back pay for services rendered prior to MacArthur's return to the U.S. Army. Not everyone accepts that version of what happened.

In any case MacArthur, Quezon and the U.S. government did not make this public knowledge during the war. If the payment was verifiably legal and ethical, there was no legitimate reason to keep it a secret.

In this way, he was just like literally millions of retired military officers and non-coms who have left the military, and gone out into the civilian work force with productive careers.

Did you read a copy of the original service contract between the Philippine government and MacArthur?

[Richard Anderson]

As I've stated before. If MacArthur was motivated by money, he simply would've gone to work on Wall Street in 1935, As Dr. James states in his 3 volume autobiograhy, Big Mac was offered any number of lucrative offers. And I'm not even talking about the $100,000 he turned down from Doubleday to write his memoirs in the late 30s. BTWm Eisenhower remarked that MacArthur could've succeeded in any field he chose. Which explains the the wall street offers.

That's nice, why not argue it with someone that has said something different? In any case, MacArthur did not take a job on Wall Street, which would have been difficult for him to do while a serving officer, instead he took a job in the Philippines, where he was able to take the pay of both an Army major general and a Philippine field marshal. Whatever anyone's opinion of what he could have done was, what he actually did was something different.

BTW, how did James manage to write an "autobiography" of MacArthur?

In any cae, the only way FDR could get MacArthur to go to the Philppines in 1935, was to lie to him and promise the High commissioner slot, and then lie to him again about not being subject to the usual 2 year rotation. AND allow him to get money from the Philippine Government. That's why when Quezon gave Sutherland and MacArthur $$$ in 1942 both FDR and Ickes approved it. You can be damn sure a MacArthur hater like ickes (who LOVED to destroy anyone he disliked) would've only approved payment if he absolutely had to under US law or agreement.

So Quezon had nothing to do with it. Good to know.

But this has been known forever. The real question is why do the informed Macarthur haters keep repeating something that isn't true? Curious - could there be another motive then historical truth? I wonder.

Which MacArthur "haters" are those? What isn't true that they keep repeating? Or is it only the informed ones who do that?

[Richard Anderson]

Douglas MacArthur's employment by the Philippine Government was NOT a ' Side Hustle ', he was a retired military officer. As such, he simply gained employment as a Civilian, working to organize and train the Philippine Army.

That’s one way to frame it.

Yep, a very ill-informed way to frame it. He was not retired from the US Army when he took the job; he retired from the US Army two years later. How difficult a statement is that to understand?

[rcocean]

Y'know I"ve suddenly realized you know little about MacArthur, and don't really want to learn. But good rhetorical arguments. Not history -but good snarky debating points. Next time I have a political intertubes debate I'll look at your posts.

[Richard Anderson]

Y'know I"ve suddenly realized you know little about MacArthur, and don't really want to learn.

I know I shouldn't be curious on this point, but when do you think MacArthur retired from the Army? Was it before or after he accepted the position and pay as a field marshal of the Philippine Commonwealth? I rather think the unwillingness to learn - and, worse, the unwillingness to actually think, is a shoe on another foot in this conversation.

[rcocean]

I know I shouldn't be curious on this point, but when do you think MacArthur retired from the Army? Was it before or after he accepted the position and pay as a field marshal of the Philippine Commonwealth? I rather think the unwillingness to learn - and, worse, the unwillingness to actually think, is a shoe on another foot in this conversation.

Yes, very rhetorical. Yay you.

[daveshoup2MD]

Douglas MacArthur's employment by the Philippine Government was NOT a ' Side Hustle ', he was a retired military officer. As such, he simply gained employment as a Civilian, working to organize and train the Philippine Army.

That’s one way to frame it.

Yep, a very ill-informed way to frame it. He was not retired from the US Army when he took the job; he retired from the US Army two years later. How difficult a statement is that to understand?

Obviously, after 20 years of the late unpleasantness in SWA, there are piles of recent monographs, histories, analyses, etc. of the US record on advisory missions to (more or less) indigenous forces; here's one (from 2007) where the "US history" chapter pieces focuses on Korea, Vietnam, and El Salvador:

https://history.army.mil/html/books/irr ... -111-1.pdf

Anyone come across a modern history, warts and all, of the MacArthur mission's efforts (so to speak) with the PCA and PC?

[daveshoup2MD]

Fascinating, really, in terms of determining just what had been accomplished with the PCA between 1936 and 1940, from CHIEF OF STAFF: PREWAR PLANS AND PREPARATIONS

https://history.army.mil/books/wwii/csppp/ch13.htm

"General Grunert presented the realities of that force in precise and unflattering terms. He explained that while General MacArthur's long-term project for a Commonwealth Army to mature in 1946 (the date set for Philippine independence) contemplated 1 regular and 30 reserve divisions, feeble progress was thus far made toward that ambitious goal.

Currently the Regular Filipino Army had 468 officers and 3,697 enlisted men, so scattered that the largest single unit was the incipient 1st Infantry Regiment, with 286 enlisted men. The Reserve force had, nominally, 6,416 officers and 120,000 enlisted men, it was true, but, of the officers, 50 percent had received no training whatever and an additional 15 percent no field training: none had commanded a unit larger than a company.

The enlisted men's training was limited, groups totaling 17,000 having had 5½ months individual and company training during the previous 3 years, and 24,174 having received 10 days' field training in May 1939, but no unit as large as a battalion having yet been assembled for training. Shortages in clothing and equipment were large. There was no ammunition and only small amounts could be provided from local US Army stores, themselves restricted.

Should there be immediate need, General Grunert proposed to utilize such Luzon elements of ill-trained infantry and artillery as were available, in company or battalion units, with one experienced American commander for each company, if available. Even so, the Philippine units would be "capable of only defensive operations involving little or no maneuver, and then only in units not larger than a battalion when closely supervised by experienced officers of the U. S. Army."

[Richard Anderson]

Anyone come across a modern history, warts and all, of the MacArthur mission's efforts (so to speak) with the PCA and PC?

I think I already mentioned Richard Bruce Meixsel's UMI PhD dissertation An Army for Independence? The American Roots of the
Philippine Army? It is quite good, especially on the background of the military mission and who did what. He nicely skewers some of Ambrose's lax scholarship and raises questions regarding some of James and Petillo's assumptions, especially taking at face value much of what MacArthur wrote in his Reminiscences, which are contradicted by other sources. However, Meixsel is probably one of those evul left-wing scholars like Spector that are so intent on sullying the reputation of the Mikado. Of course, the vital question is, do they do it rhetorically or not?

[daveshoup2MD]

Anyone come across a modern history, warts and all, of the MacArthur mission's efforts (so to speak) with the PCA and PC?

I think I already mentioned Richard Bruce Meixsel's UMI PhD dissertation An Army for Independence? The American Roots of the
Philippine Army? It is quite good, especially on the background of the military mission and who did what. He nicely skewers some of Ambrose's lax scholarship and raises questions regarding some of James and Petillo's assumptions, especially taking at face value much of what MacArthur wrote in his Reminiscences, which are contradicted by other sources. However, Meixsel is probably one of those evul left-wing scholars like Spector that are so intent on sullying the reputation of the Mikado. Of course, the vital question is, do they do it rhetorically or not?

Thanks; will look for it. Anything surprising in terms of the PCA and PC performance in 1941-42?