Hidden issue of WAR ( Q. for Musashi )

Discussions on WW2 in the Pacific and the Sino-Japanese War.
Aleksei22
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Hidden issue of WAR ( Q. for Musashi )

#1

Post by Aleksei22 » 28 Jul 2004, 18:21

Hello, Musashi


(imported from http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... 85f#499931 )


BTW, Musashi

Pls, look for figures below.

I would like to see your personal comments.

Thank you.


_________________________
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japan-1946-( forum-sized ) small.jpg
Japan 1946 memorandum
japan-1946-( forum-sized ) small.jpg (235.04 KiB) Viewed 2814 times
japan 2004 usa (small).jpg
USA official political Map
japan 2004 usa (small).jpg (220.42 KiB) Viewed 2814 times

David Thompson
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#2

Post by David Thompson » 28 Jul 2004, 22:06

Aleksei22 -- Why doesn't your map show the annexation of Southern Sakhalin Island, seized by the USSR from Japan in 1945 at the same time the Kurile Island were taken? Was there some reason for leaving it out? (Hint to the readers -- Southern Sakhalin is much larger than the Kurile and Ryukyu Islands combined). And why does the caption only point to the bottom three of the Sakhalin Islands, instead of showing the extent of the territory seized by the USSR, which extended all the way north to the Kamchatka peninsula?

Also, what is the source or sources of the map you are used? (Hint: the map, as marked, isn't at the url given in the picture).


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Musashi
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#3

Post by Musashi » 28 Jul 2004, 22:31

Zdrastvuyte Aleksei22!
I can't answer your question, because I am a Pole, not a Japanese. This question is for the Japanese members of this forum and I am sure they will answer you soon :) Please change the title of this topic. I think "A question for the Japanese mebers" should be the most suitable :)
Spasiba i pozdravlayu,
Chris

Aleksei22
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#4

Post by Aleksei22 » 29 Jul 2004, 04:32

Hello, David

You can find answers for ALL questions here: -

_______direct-reff._________________


http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/fac ... fmaps.html


or download

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/fac ... /asia.html

or download

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/fac ... f/asia.pdf


good luck.

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#5

Post by David Thompson » 29 Jul 2004, 06:17

Aleksei22 -- I found the answers to none of my questions there, so let me repeat them:
(1) Why doesn't your map show the annexation of Southern Sakhalin Island, seized by the USSR from Japan in 1945 at the same time the Kurile Island were taken?

(2) Was there some reason for leaving it out? (Hint to the readers -- Southern Sakhalin is much larger than the Kurile and Ryukyu Islands combined).

(3) And why does the caption only point to the bottom three of the Sakhalin Islands, instead of showing the extent of the territory seized by the USSR, which extended all the way north to the Kamchatka peninsula?

(4) Also, what is the source or sources of the map you are used? (Hint: the map, as marked, isn't at the url given in the picture).
The map on the site does not have the red "bubbles" seen on your map,, nor do the words: "Look and compare" appear. As presented to compare and contrast the annexation of Japanese national territory by the USSR and the US in 1945, the map is so misleading as to be fraudulent.

Furthermore, the US returned the Ryukyu Islands to Japanese sovereignty some years ago. I have never read that either the USSR or its successor state, Russia, have ceded possession of southern Sakhalin and/or the Kurile Islands back to Japan.

The attached map is taken from the 1923 Atlas of the World and Gazeteer, published by Funk & Wagnalls, New York/London: 1923. It shows the extent of the Japanese Empire as of that date, prior to the 1945 dismemberment.
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Robert Rojas
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RE: Hidden Issue of War - (Question For Musashi) - Et Al.

#6

Post by Robert Rojas » 29 Jul 2004, 08:06

Greetings to both citizen Aleksei-22 and the community as a whole. Well Aleksei (or Alex if you prefer), in reference to your pointed inquiry to citizen Musashi on Wednesday - July 28, 2004 - 5:21pm, old Uncle Bob is more than just a wee bit curious about the nature of the "figures" that citizen Musashi was, in theory anyway, suppose to offer his "personal comments". Now, since many of us are clearly lacking with the powers of clairvoyance, then it might be a terribly bad idea if you provided a concise explanation of what technically constitutes the "figures" in your question. In short, are your "figures" mathematic in character OR are your "figures" cartographic in character? Finally, is the crux of your rather ambiguous topic ultimately geared toward the contentious issue of irredentism? A clarification on these issues would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance for both your time and consideration in regards to these matters. Well, that's my two kopecks on the subject - for now anyway. As always, I would like to bid you a copacetic day over in the Motherland.

Best Regards,
Uncle Bob :? :roll: :|

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27 april 1875.

#7

Post by Aleksei22 » 29 Jul 2004, 11:04

Hello, David

If I understood you right - you downloaded recommended
official (USA's) political MAPS ( Asia with Japan area ).


Last step you need to do now - "switch-on" your
brain creativity.

To stimulate this step, pls, find below my next help for
you ( and other member of this forum O.C. ).



NB. - Sachalin-Kurila Islands problem traced ( herein )
down to Russia-Japan Land Treaty, signed 27 april 1875.



BTW. - pls, dont miss your personal comment related to
1946 Japan memorandum, shown in my first message.



Thank you, and

Good Luck.
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sakhalin-kyrila-island-problem-traced-down-to 1875 (small-LQ).jpg
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Peter H
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#8

Post by Peter H » 29 Jul 2004, 13:49

I assume this topic is trying to find a compatability between Russian and US annexation of Japanese territory after 1945.See below for a reality check on this claim:


On Sakhalin/Kuriles:
In the early 19th century, Sakhalin and the Kuriles became the subject of a Russian-Japanese territorial dispute.

The Russo-Japanese border changed repeatedly over the next two centuries. According to the Simodsky Agreement of 1855, the boundary passed between the islands of Urup and Iturup and Sakhalin remained undivided. In 1875, Russia ceded the North Kuriles to Japan in exchange for full rights to Sakhalin. After defeating Russia in the Russo-Japanese war of 1904-1905, Japan seized South Sakhalin from it. The Japanese subsequently occupied North Sakhalin from 1920 to 1925. The last boundary changes occurred in 1945, when Russia took back South Sakhalin and the Kuril Islands after the Soviet victory in the Second World War.
http://www.kommersant.com/tree.asp?rubr ... doc_id=-66

And the Ryukyus:
The islands were the site of an ancient independent kingdom that had its capital at Shuri, on Okinawa. The Chinese reached the islands in the 7th cent. but did not exact tribute until the 14th cent. In the 17th cent. the Japanese prince of Satsuma invaded the islands, which thereafter paid tribute to both Japan and China. Commodore Matthew Perry of the U.S. navy landed in the Ryukyus in 1853. The entire archipelago was incorporated into the Japanese empire in 1879, but the islands were generally neglected by Japan. During World War II the Ryukyus were the scene of fierce fighting between U.S. and Japanese forces, with the United States winning control of the islands in 1945. After the war the islands south of lat. 30°N were placed (Aug., 1945) under a U.S. military governor at Naha. The Ryukyus became a key salient of the U.S. Pacific defense perimeter, and major military bases were established on Okinawa. In 1951, at the San Francisco Peace Conference, the Japanese were given residual sovereignty over the islands, but the United States retained actual control. The Amami group was returned to Japan in 1953. The Japanese desire to regain the remaining U.S.-held islands was a source of friction between the two countries for nearly two decades. In 1962 the occupation administration was liberalized, and in 1968, after a series of negotiations, the United States permitted the popular election of the governor of the Ryukyus and the seating of Ryukyu representatives in the Japanese Diet. The archipelago was returned to Japan in May, 1972. The United States was allowed to retain its military bases subject to certain limitations. Other forms of the name are Lu-chu, Loo-choo, Liu-kiu, and Riukiu.


http://www.bartleby.com/65/ry/RyukyuIs.html

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Robert Rojas
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RE: Hidden Issue of War - (Question For Musashi).

#9

Post by Robert Rojas » 29 Jul 2004, 16:57

Greetings to both citizen Peter H. and the community as a whole. Well Peter (or Pete if you prefer), in reference to your posting of Thursday - July 29, 2004 - 12:49pm, old Uncle Bob would like to convey my appreciation for your well crafted attempt to place a rational face upon this thread. However, your wonderful analysis notwithstanding, I am still in a fog about the genuine intent and direction of this thread. I strongly suspect that you are right on the money with your research, but in the end, only citizen Aleksei-22 can provide the concise definition to the specific question OR questions at hand. Whether intentionally or unintentionally, the gentleman appears to be a purveyor of riddles. Now, I do not know about you, but I have neither the time nor the inclination to engage in open-ended fishing expeditions. Once again, thank you for your serious attempt to broach this subject. Well, that's my latest two cents or kopecks on the subject. In anycase, I would like to bid you a copacetic day in the DOWN UNDER.

Best Regards,
Uncle Bob :) :wink: 8)

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#10

Post by David Thompson » 29 Jul 2004, 18:15

Aleksei22 -- You said:
Last step you need to do now - "switch-on" your brain creativity.

To stimulate this step, pls, find below my next help for
you ( and other member of this forum O.C. ).

NB. - Sachalin-Kurila Islands problem traced ( herein )
down to Russia-Japan Land Treaty, signed 27 april 1875.
I don't need to "switch on my brain creativity" to see that the "look and compare" labelling on your map, and the point it implies, is an obvious and crude historical fraud.

Aleksei22
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my last "nickel" for David Thompson

#11

Post by Aleksei22 » 29 Jul 2004, 18:44

David Thompson wrote:Aleksei22 --
I don't need to "switch on my brain creativity" to see that the "look and compare" labelling on your map, and the point it implies, is an obvious and crude historical fraud.

my last "nickel" for David Thompson.

David, are you a jew ?


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

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Musashi
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Re: my last "nickel" for David Thompson

#12

Post by Musashi » 29 Jul 2004, 18:58

Aleksei22 wrote:
David Thompson wrote:Aleksei22 --
I don't need to "switch on my brain creativity" to see that the "look and compare" labelling on your map, and the point it implies, is an obvious and crude historical fraud.

my last "nickel" for David Thompson.

David, are you a jew ?


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Aleksei, you shouldn't stand such question here. Its not important if somebody is a Jew or not.

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Marcus
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#13

Post by Marcus » 29 Jul 2004, 19:08

Aleksei22,

Keep your obvious obsession with Jews out of my forum.

/Marcus

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#14

Post by David Thompson » 29 Jul 2004, 19:28

Aleksei22 -- You asked:
my last "nickel" for David Thompson.

David, are you a jew ?
No. My ancestors were from Denmark and Ireland, and have been Christians for a thousand years or more.

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Oked

#15

Post by Aleksei22 » 29 Jul 2004, 19:45

David Thompson wrote: No. My ancestors were from Denmark and Ireland, and have been Christians for a thousand years or more.
Oked, lets niclel roll ...

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