An American Vietnam veteran could be about to answer one of the most intriguing questions arising from the second world war: was Japan preparing to seek peace with the allies more than a year before the war ended?
The vessel is thought to be carrying the remains of 112 crew, two tonnes of gold and a similar quantity of opium
After learning about the I-52's mission while sifting through declassified military documents in Washington in 1990, Mr Tidwell's initial interest became a passion.
According to the documents, Yoshikazu Fujimura, the assistant naval attache in Switzerland, had been in secret peace negotiations with a US representative, Allen Dulles.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/japan/story/0 ... ?gusrc=rss
A Ship With Gold, Opium and a Secret Peace Treaty?
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Psycho Mike
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Simon Gunson
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Wow I thought that whole saga had drawn to an unsuccessful conclusion after watching the story on national geographic. So Tidwall still wants to try again ?
Raising that sub would probably cost more than the gold he could recover. I seem to recall the operation to raise Kursk cost in the vicinity of US$700m.
It makes one ponder if there is not a deeper pocket behind this, with another agenda ?
Remembering of course the Glomar Explorer ruse to recover the Russian K-19. Three tons of gold does not justify the massive cost of recovering the wreck.
Ehime Maru off Hawaii and the John Barry salvage are the next most comparable seabed recoveries and they were enormously expensive.
Raising that sub would probably cost more than the gold he could recover. I seem to recall the operation to raise Kursk cost in the vicinity of US$700m.
It makes one ponder if there is not a deeper pocket behind this, with another agenda ?
Remembering of course the Glomar Explorer ruse to recover the Russian K-19. Three tons of gold does not justify the massive cost of recovering the wreck.
Ehime Maru off Hawaii and the John Barry salvage are the next most comparable seabed recoveries and they were enormously expensive.
Japanese "peace feelers" are no great revelation. Japan had been seeking peace ever since the middle of 1942, when they had completed the conquest if the "Greater East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere". What they then wanted was for the Western Allies to sue for peace at terms highly favorable to Japan so that they could get back to destroying China.
As the war wound on, Japan's terms softened somewhat, but they consistantly demanded more than the Allies were willing to give. The United States, for one thing, was not fighting Japan alone. The Chinese had been promised, by 1943, that all of Japan's conquests in China, including all of Shandong, Manchuria, Inner Mongolia, and Taiwan, would be restored to China. The US had also decided that Korea should be independent after the war. Since France, Great Britain, and the Netherlands were also unwilling to give up their territory in Asia, that left very little left for Japan to demand that the Allies would be willing to let them keep. However, Japan continued to insist on retaining at least Korea, Manchuria, and Taiwan up until Nagasaki (although they did offer Manchuria and Sakhalin to the Russians at the last minute in exchange for their help in brokering a deal). The US also sought to remove Japan's military leadership from power, possibly even ending the Imperial institution itself. However, if the status of the Emperor was the only stumbling point, as many historians later claimed it was, then the US probably would have been willing to work out an end to the war. After all, when in total control of Japan the US chose to allow the Emperor to remain on the throne as a constitutional monarch, provided he had no political role.
The real sticking point was always the territory and the military rule. Japan's leaders were unwilling to give up either. Japan's leaders felt, naturally enough, that to sign a peace treaty that surrendered all of their Asian territory would invalidate the sacrifice of their soldiers. However, they could never grasp that the territory of other countries did not belong to them (of course, a lot of it didn't belong to its prior occupiers either, but that was a lesson other countries had to learn later on). They honestly and consistantly hoped that they could make the weak, decadent Americans so desperate for peace that they would screw their allies and their ideals to get it.
To that end, Japan tried to achieve a great victory that could regain the advantage or at least force a stalemate that would allow them to get favorable terms in a peace settlement. This led the Japanese to grasp at any opportunity to turn the tide. The Japanese leadership, however, was at no point willing to consider giving up their territorial ambitions. They were willing to suffer horrible military and civilian losses, but they were unwilling to consider giving up their conquests or their power until it was nearly too late for their country and their people.
I am sure that the Japanese were trying to negotiate secretly with America in Switzerland and with the Russians too. They even tried to get Mao to act as a go-between with the Russians (Mao refused and the Japanese bombed Yan'an in reprisal). However, the Japanese stuck to their basic territorial demands and their insistance that the military remain in charge. I am sure that whatever is recovered in that sub (if anything) regarding "peace feelers", it will be in the same vein.
As the war wound on, Japan's terms softened somewhat, but they consistantly demanded more than the Allies were willing to give. The United States, for one thing, was not fighting Japan alone. The Chinese had been promised, by 1943, that all of Japan's conquests in China, including all of Shandong, Manchuria, Inner Mongolia, and Taiwan, would be restored to China. The US had also decided that Korea should be independent after the war. Since France, Great Britain, and the Netherlands were also unwilling to give up their territory in Asia, that left very little left for Japan to demand that the Allies would be willing to let them keep. However, Japan continued to insist on retaining at least Korea, Manchuria, and Taiwan up until Nagasaki (although they did offer Manchuria and Sakhalin to the Russians at the last minute in exchange for their help in brokering a deal). The US also sought to remove Japan's military leadership from power, possibly even ending the Imperial institution itself. However, if the status of the Emperor was the only stumbling point, as many historians later claimed it was, then the US probably would have been willing to work out an end to the war. After all, when in total control of Japan the US chose to allow the Emperor to remain on the throne as a constitutional monarch, provided he had no political role.
The real sticking point was always the territory and the military rule. Japan's leaders were unwilling to give up either. Japan's leaders felt, naturally enough, that to sign a peace treaty that surrendered all of their Asian territory would invalidate the sacrifice of their soldiers. However, they could never grasp that the territory of other countries did not belong to them (of course, a lot of it didn't belong to its prior occupiers either, but that was a lesson other countries had to learn later on). They honestly and consistantly hoped that they could make the weak, decadent Americans so desperate for peace that they would screw their allies and their ideals to get it.
To that end, Japan tried to achieve a great victory that could regain the advantage or at least force a stalemate that would allow them to get favorable terms in a peace settlement. This led the Japanese to grasp at any opportunity to turn the tide. The Japanese leadership, however, was at no point willing to consider giving up their territorial ambitions. They were willing to suffer horrible military and civilian losses, but they were unwilling to consider giving up their conquests or their power until it was nearly too late for their country and their people.
I am sure that the Japanese were trying to negotiate secretly with America in Switzerland and with the Russians too. They even tried to get Mao to act as a go-between with the Russians (Mao refused and the Japanese bombed Yan'an in reprisal). However, the Japanese stuck to their basic territorial demands and their insistance that the military remain in charge. I am sure that whatever is recovered in that sub (if anything) regarding "peace feelers", it will be in the same vein.
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Aufklarung
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Well posted, Goldfish. 
I wonder what "paper" they hope to find if they actually do manage to raise the wreck. Even as an "Ah-Hah!!" novelty it's not worth much now. We have seen how resistant the Japanese are to admit any wrongdoing in their conquests. Obstinate in our eyes but there is/was a definite cultural difference as well. Mindset if you will.
And the Gold? Hmmm..... 2 tonnes (or 2 megagrams=4408lbs) times sixteen ounces in a pound times US$430.00 an ounce (and he only gets 10% of that) doesn't seem all that great a sum compared to the potential recovery costs.
Sonar image of the submarine I-52, resting at a depth of 17,000 feet in the Atlantic.
A fine I-Boat on display somewhere too but, man, what an outlay!!
I don't know the price of 2 tonnes of opium.
regards
A
I wonder what "paper" they hope to find if they actually do manage to raise the wreck. Even as an "Ah-Hah!!" novelty it's not worth much now. We have seen how resistant the Japanese are to admit any wrongdoing in their conquests. Obstinate in our eyes but there is/was a definite cultural difference as well. Mindset if you will.
And the Gold? Hmmm..... 2 tonnes (or 2 megagrams=4408lbs) times sixteen ounces in a pound times US$430.00 an ounce (and he only gets 10% of that) doesn't seem all that great a sum compared to the potential recovery costs.
Sonar image of the submarine I-52, resting at a depth of 17,000 feet in the Atlantic.
A fine I-Boat on display somewhere too but, man, what an outlay!!
I don't know the price of 2 tonnes of opium.
regards
A
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Simon Gunson
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Simon Gunson
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Yeah opiates were needed for pain relief anasthetics etc. U-boats and I-boats carried rubber, tin, wolfram (tungsten) opiates and rare earth metals etc.
Voyages to the east carried weapon prototypes, uranium oxide, mercury, optics, radar, jet engines, 3 rotor enigma machine for the IJN, rockets (V1, V2, Me-163, Me 262 etc)
Voyages to the east carried weapon prototypes, uranium oxide, mercury, optics, radar, jet engines, 3 rotor enigma machine for the IJN, rockets (V1, V2, Me-163, Me 262 etc)