Handwriting help

Need help with translating WW1, Inter-War or WW2 related documents or information?
User avatar
B Hellqvist
Member
Posts: 1021
Joined: 29 Apr 2004 00:45
Location: Sweden

Re: Handwriting help

Post by B Hellqvist » 26 Aug 2019 03:56

I'll be damned! The troops in the photo must have started out from East Prussia, marching south towards Warsaw and passing Płatkownica on the way. The forensic skills of the members of this forum never cease to amaze me. Thanks, all!

ETA: Gah! Things aren't as easy as one would like... Looking at the back of the photo, I noticed a small note in pencil in a corner: "3. Art. Reg." The regiment was part of the 3. Infanterie-Division, which belonged to 4. Armee in Pomerania. This places Płatkownica well outside of the area of operations of the 3. ID. I guess I'll leave it at that...

nichte
Member
Posts: 412
Joined: 06 Mar 2012 03:09
Location: Florida

Re: Handwriting help

Post by nichte » 28 Aug 2019 02:47

Just one more possible name: Polkowice?
I think the place name on the picture was written down as perceived, so the letters could be mixed up a bit.
I have no idea if that would fit within the area of operations of the 3. ID., though.
Source of map: GoogleMap

Hiltraut
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

GregSingh
Member
Posts: 2765
Joined: 21 Jun 2012 01:11
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Handwriting help

Post by GregSingh » 28 Aug 2019 06:38

The regiment was part of the 3. Infanterie-Division
Pity that photo is not dated. :x

You can follow the advance of 3.ID in Poland based on documents at http://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org
I found folder Akte 14 most relevant: http://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/de/n ... rid/zoom/1

Here is page 101.
It mentions: Pluskowesy, correctly Pluskowęsy and
Pruskataka, correctly Pruska Łąka
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
If we become increasingly humble about how little we know, we may be more eager to search.

User avatar
B Hellqvist
Member
Posts: 1021
Joined: 29 Apr 2004 00:45
Location: Sweden

Re: Handwriting help

Post by B Hellqvist » 28 Aug 2019 08:40

nichte wrote:
28 Aug 2019 02:47
Just one more possible name: Polkowice?
I think the place name on the picture was written down as perceived, so the letters could be mixed up a bit.
I have no idea if that would fit within the area of operations of the 3. ID., though.
Polkowice was "Polkwitz" in 1939 according to my trusty old German road atlas, and firmly within German borders. Also, it's far from the route of advance of 3. ID (which isn't easy to plot without documents like what Greg dug up).

User avatar
B Hellqvist
Member
Posts: 1021
Joined: 29 Apr 2004 00:45
Location: Sweden

Re: Handwriting help

Post by B Hellqvist » 28 Aug 2019 09:00

GregSingh wrote:
28 Aug 2019 06:38
The regiment was part of the 3. Infanterie-Division
Pity that photo is not dated. :x

You can follow the advance of 3.ID in Poland based on documents at http://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org
I found folder Akte 14 most relevant: http://wwii.germandocsinrussia.org/de/n ... rid/zoom/1

Here is page 101.
It mentions: Pluskowesy, correctly Pluskowęsy and
Pruskataka, correctly Pruska Łąka
Wow, what a find! Pluskowesy is too small to feature in my German road atlas, but the German name for the village appears to have been "Pluskowenze". Pruska Laka was "Preußisch Lanke", so I tend to believe that the former is the more likely of the two. Hiltraut, do you think that's the name on the photo?

nichte
Member
Posts: 412
Joined: 06 Mar 2012 03:09
Location: Florida

Re: Handwriting help

Post by nichte » 28 Aug 2019 17:40

Hmm, it could be, but on the other words on the picture, there is always the carved line over an "u" to distinguish it.
Additionaly, the "s" in the middle of the word in question needs to be much longer down, as it appears in the other words if you compare.
I wish I had more knowledge about where on the map to look for it.
Hiltraut
Last edited by nichte on 28 Aug 2019 18:58, edited 1 time in total.

nichte
Member
Posts: 412
Joined: 06 Mar 2012 03:09
Location: Florida

Re: Handwriting help

Post by nichte » 28 Aug 2019 17:59

Looking at the word in question again, it now looks to me like there are possibly two words. The first one could be the appreviation "Pln" (polnisch?), and the second word would be the place? Too bad the second word is so hard to make out.
The name could be [Pln] Czerwinsk and written as Tzerwinsk”, as it sounded? I believe the middle letters are "erwi"(the dot over the "i" made me read it like that).
Just a bit speculation on my side. :)
Hiltraut

User avatar
B Hellqvist
Member
Posts: 1021
Joined: 29 Apr 2004 00:45
Location: Sweden

Re: Handwriting help

Post by B Hellqvist » 28 Aug 2019 20:56

There's a Czerwinsk about 60 km north of where the 3. ID ended up.
The 3.Infanterie-Division crossed into Poland in the van of the 4.Armee attack against the Polish Corridor. The region of its attack was known as the Tuchola Forest, an area defended only lightly by the Polish 9th Infantry Division and Pomorska Cavalry Brigade. It broke through the Polish defenses at Seenkette between Nandsburg and Mrotschen, and fought across the Brda (Braha) River west of Crone, where it pursued through the Tucheler Heide to the Vistula (Weichsel) River in the region of Topolno-Grabowko. The 3.Infanterie-Division then took part in pursuit combat over the Weichsel River in the direction of Modlin. It then took part in security operations against the Bzura Pocket between Woclawek and Wyscogrod, before fighting near Plock and advancing in the direction of Gostynin, ending its stint in Poland near Lowicz
Here's a rough map of the advance.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
B Hellqvist
Member
Posts: 1021
Joined: 29 Apr 2004 00:45
Location: Sweden

Re: Handwriting help

Post by B Hellqvist » 29 Aug 2019 01:19

I don't know if we can get any further. I had another look at the photo, and looking at the license plate on the car at the side of the road, I saw that the number is WH-17057, which implies a vehicle from Wehrkreis I (the number/Wehrkreis system reportedly worked up to 1940; after that, the numbers were random). If we suppose that the vehicle belongs to the same division, or at least the same army group, it could mean that the "3. Art.Reg" could be faulty, or mean something other than the official nomenclature, as Wehrkreis I was the same as East Prussia. That might in turn mean that the guess that it's "Płatkownica" could be correct, as the units advancing that way struck out from East Prussia.

It's frustrating when that final little clue is missing. Still, it's an exercise in research, and I hope we all get a little bit more knowledgeable in the process. I have no other photo in the pipeline right now, so until next time: thanks for the input!

history1
Member
Posts: 3591
Joined: 31 Oct 2005 09:12
Location: Austria

Re: Handwriting help

Post by history1 » 01 Sep 2019 08:17

nichte wrote:
28 Aug 2019 17:59
Looking at the word in question again, it now looks to me like there are possibly two words. [...]
The name could be [Pln] Czerwinsk and written as Tzerwinsk”, as it sounded? [...]
The Polish "Cz" doesn´t sound like "Tz" in German but is "tsch" or "Cz" in English (as used in Czech Republic). Other examples are eg. sword = miecz, or the head of the Jewish Council in Warsaw, Adam Czerniaków (ó = u, w=f/v), = Tscherniakuf/Tscherniakuv.
Preussisch Lanke is a bad choice for Pruska Łąka as the latter means "meadow" in Polish.
Last edited by history1 on 01 Sep 2019 08:33, edited 1 time in total.

history1
Member
Posts: 3591
Joined: 31 Oct 2005 09:12
Location: Austria

Re: Handwriting help

Post by history1 » 01 Sep 2019 08:32

I disagree with the "Pln. [Czerwinsk]"- suggestion as what appears for Hiltraut to be the letter "n" in this case doesn´t look like the letter "n" in "Polenfeldzug" but is, at least for me, identical to the letter "a" in "Fahrt".

nichte
Member
Posts: 412
Joined: 06 Mar 2012 03:09
Location: Florida

Re: Handwriting help

Post by nichte » 01 Sep 2019 15:25

Yes, Roman, I think you are correct. Your "Płatkownica" seems to come closest.
Hiltraut

User avatar
B Hellqvist
Member
Posts: 1021
Joined: 29 Apr 2004 00:45
Location: Sweden

Re: Handwriting help

Post by B Hellqvist » 01 Sep 2019 22:19

I'm going with Płatkownica. Thanks, all!

User avatar
B Hellqvist
Member
Posts: 1021
Joined: 29 Apr 2004 00:45
Location: Sweden

Re: Handwriting help

Post by B Hellqvist » 08 Sep 2019 17:25

OK, I hope this one is easier. Looks like "Friedrichslager" to me, which could be Bodzow in Poland (Bösau; "Friedrichslager" 1937-45) but there was no training area or garrison there from what I can see. Any better interpretation of the name?
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
B Hellqvist
Member
Posts: 1021
Joined: 29 Apr 2004 00:45
Location: Sweden

Re: Handwriting help

Post by B Hellqvist » 21 Sep 2019 15:15

Another one. The Krupp truck appears to belong to a towed artillery unit, but what do the scribblings on the back say?
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Return to “Translation help: Breaking the Sound Barrier”