Handwriting help

Need help with translating WW1, Inter-War or WW2 related documents or information?
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B Hellqvist
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Re: Handwriting help

Post by B Hellqvist » 02 Feb 2019 19:29

history1 wrote:
02 Feb 2019 14:30
Doesn´t make sense to run around with RAD patches as those three belonged to the Wehrmacht at this time and an additional benefit was that thus they were portected due to the Geneve Conventions and the Hague Land Warfare Convention.
RAD wasn't a part of the Wehrmacht per se, but an auxilary organization. You see that they still have their RAD cap badges. The sleeve badges should be on their greatcoats.
history1 wrote:
02 Feb 2019 14:30
The lower name is Dr. Rüping. I think it´s Dr. Robert Rüping, rank "Oberarzt" (senior physician?), DOB Feb. 5th, 1909. Date of KIA/MIA: Dec. 17th, 1942 at Mrychin.
Source: Volksbund grave search
Nice find! It seems like he did his Abitur in 1929, as a Robert Rüping is listed as one of the students from the Stadtgymnasium Dortmund that were KIA.
history1 wrote:
02 Feb 2019 14:30
I couldn´t find a place named "Mrychin" (yet). Don´t their boots point on a cavalry unit? Anyway, it is the officer at the right with the physicians bag.
As officers, they could be wearing cavalry boots anyway. "Mrychin" is an enigma. I've found that sometimes some crappy little farm of four people and an old goat has been listed as the place of death. It is a Russian surname, but as a place name it could've been misspelled in the report.
history1 wrote:
02 Feb 2019 14:30
For the left officer with general rank in can´t make out the name with certainty, I read "Koloman".
I couldn't find any general with a name similar to that. What a mystery!

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Re: Handwriting help

Post by history1 » 02 Feb 2019 22:02

B Hellqvist wrote:
02 Feb 2019 19:29
history1 wrote:
02 Feb 2019 14:30
Doesn´t make sense to run around with RAD patches as those three belonged to the Wehrmacht at this time and an additional benefit was that thus they were portected due to the Geneve Conventions and the Hague Land Warfare Convention.
RAD wasn't a part of the Wehrmacht per se, but an auxilary organization. You see that they still have their RAD cap badges. The sleeve badges should be on their greatcoats.
[...]
They were part of the Wehrmacht by wearing the armband "Deutsche Wehrmacht"!
And feel free to point out the text pasage which says that the Reicharbeitsdient was meant as auxilary for the Wehrmacht:
https://tinyurl.com/yc5bqyes

GregSingh
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Re: Handwriting help

Post by GregSingh » 03 Feb 2019 01:20

Date of KIA/MIA: Dec. 17th, 1942 at Mrychin
Without knowing his unit at the time of death it's just a guess, but this date perfectly matches start of Soviet offensive on the 16th against Italian 8th Army and German XXIX.AK on the Don river in the area of Meshkov (now Meshkovskaya).
Mrychin is just to the NE, now called Mrykhovskiy.

Mrychin.jpg
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If we become increasingly humble about how little we know, we may be more eager to search.

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B Hellqvist
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Re: Handwriting help

Post by B Hellqvist » 03 Feb 2019 02:04

history1 wrote:
02 Feb 2019 22:02
B Hellqvist wrote:
02 Feb 2019 19:29
history1 wrote:
02 Feb 2019 14:30
Doesn´t make sense to run around with RAD patches as those three belonged to the Wehrmacht at this time and an additional benefit was that thus they were portected due to the Geneve Conventions and the Hague Land Warfare Convention.
RAD wasn't a part of the Wehrmacht per se, but an auxilary organization. You see that they still have their RAD cap badges. The sleeve badges should be on their greatcoats.
[...]
They were part of the Wehrmacht by wearing the armband "Deutsche Wehrmacht"!
And feel free to point out the text pasage which says that the Reicharbeitsdient was meant as auxilary for the Wehrmacht:
https://tinyurl.com/yc5bqyes
First off, I must correct myself: the RAD units supporting the Wehrmacht didn't wear their unit patches; only their cap badges and belt buckles showed that they were part of the RAD, the "Deutsche Wehrmacht" armbands showing their affilation. That being said, I have a photo of RAD men inspecting a knocked out Soviet tank, wearing regular RAD insignia and no Wehrmacht armbands.

It's one thing what the founding document says, another what became practice as the war began.
The RAD was classed as Wehrmachtgefolge (lit. Defence Force Following). Auxiliary forces with this status, while not a part of the Armed Forces themselves, provided such vital support that they were given protection by the Geneva Convention. Some, including the RAD, were militarised.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reich_Labour_Service#War

Also:
Contrary to common assumption though, the RAD was not, in fact, a part of the German Armed Forces, but as stated earlier, an independent state organization. The confusion regarding the RAD resulted largely from a move in 1938 in which the Reichsarbeitdienst and the Organization Todt (another labor organization) were directed to support the Wehrmacht in various auxiliary tasks - a task they would perform throughout WWII. In fact, the Reichsarbeitdienst was actually known as a Wehrmachtsgefolge, or armed forces auxiliary. What this meant was that the RAD was deemed an important auxiliary organization to the smooth operations of the regular armed forces. Although later in WWII they were even allowed to carry weapons, they were never actually a part of the official armed forces, a status reserved exclusively for the Heer, Luftwaffe and Kriegsmarine, and tactically, the Waffen-SS.
https://www.feldgrau.com/WW2-German-Nat ... eitsdienst

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B Hellqvist
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Re: Handwriting help

Post by B Hellqvist » 03 Feb 2019 02:04

GregSingh wrote:
03 Feb 2019 01:20
Date of KIA/MIA: Dec. 17th, 1942 at Mrychin
Without knowing his unit at the time of death it's just a guess, but this date perfectly matches start of Soviet offensive on the 16th against Italian 8th Army and German XXIX.AK on the Don river in the area of Meshkov (now Meshkovskaya).
Mrychin is just to the NE, now called Mrykhovskiy.


Mrychin.jpg
Excellent find! Thanks!

history1
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Re: Handwriting help

Post by history1 » 03 Feb 2019 09:39

Spare me your nonsense from Wikipedia, Hellqvist.
Statements like "Some [meant Wehrmachtsgefolge], including the RAD, were militarised. " or "The RAD was divided into two major sections, one for men (Reichsarbeitsdienst Männer - RAD/M)" are only laughable.
I´m done with you.

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B Hellqvist
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Re: Handwriting help

Post by B Hellqvist » 03 Feb 2019 10:17

Thanks for the help you've provided, history1. I would've liked to see a source explaining why the RAD wasn't a Wehrmacht auxilary organization, when there's evidence that it was.

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B Hellqvist
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Re: Handwriting help

Post by B Hellqvist » 27 Mar 2019 03:50

Just checking if my interpretation (and German) is correct:

"Ein geschossener Panzerwagen auf den Truppenübungsplatz Grafenwöhr."
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nichte
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Re: Handwriting help

Post by nichte » 27 Mar 2019 04:15

Pretty close! :)

Two minor corrections:
Ein zerschossener Panzerwagen
auf dem Truppenübungsplatz
Grafenwöhr.

Hiltraut

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B Hellqvist
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Re: Handwriting help

Post by B Hellqvist » 27 Mar 2019 04:36

Thanks! I was hesitating between "dem" and "den". It's been almost 40 years since I had German in school...

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Re: Handwriting help

Post by luckystrike78 » 29 Mar 2019 16:01

Can anyone read that name?
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nichte
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Re: Handwriting help

Post by nichte » 29 Mar 2019 16:31

Rudi [short for Rudolf] Büthe

Source: https://digital.staatsbibliothek-berlin ... ent_page=1
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Re: Handwriting help

Post by luckystrike78 » 29 Mar 2019 16:45

thanks.

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Re: Handwriting help

Post by Tigertank519 » 01 Apr 2019 01:57

B Hellqvist wrote:
27 Mar 2019 04:36
Thanks! I was hesitating between "dem" and "den". It's been almost 40 years since I had German in school...
Sorry I’m a new user to this website so I’m not really sure how to do this. Mr. Hellqvist I have recently been trying to get in contact with Mr. Johann Voss so I could try and send him a letter or talk to him over the phone about his times in the war. In another chat I saw you had once talked to him? If you have any suggestions please help me out! Have a nice day!

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B Hellqvist
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Re: Handwriting help

Post by B Hellqvist » 02 Apr 2019 02:50

Tigertank519 wrote:
01 Apr 2019 01:57
Sorry I’m a new user to this website so I’m not really sure how to do this. Mr. Hellqvist I have recently been trying to get in contact with Mr. Johann Voss so I could try and send him a letter or talk to him over the phone about his times in the war. In another chat I saw you had once talked to him? If you have any suggestions please help me out! Have a nice day!
See PM.

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