Request for advice on finding biographical info on members of SS-Kavallerie regiments

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RichardA
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Request for advice on finding biographical info on members of SS-Kavallerie regiments

Postby RichardA » 16 May 2018 17:51

Can anyone advise me, please? I’m a (non-military) author trying to find information about the war-records of some leading German steeplechase jockeys of the 1930s. 

Their names are:
SS-Obersturmführer Oskar Lengnick
Heinz Lemke
SS-Untersturmführer Hans Schmidt
SS-Unterscharführer Kurt (or Curt) Scharffetter
H. Böttcher
Otto Backenhaus
"A. Peters"

I’m pretty sure they were all in the SS equestrian division before the war. I assume that from 1939 they mostly became members of the SS Cavalry, although I don’t know which regiments. 

I’d be really grateful for any advice at all on how I should go about trying to find these men’s SS “service records” – if such things exist.

Alternatively, has anyone heard of any of those names? They were mostly East Prussians and did most of their riding around Insterburg. So they may well have been in the 01.SS-Reiter-Standarte Insterburg (or, possibly, the 3. SS-Reiter-Standarte Treuburg or the 20. SS-Reiter-Standarte Tilsit). But that’s just a guess.

Any advice at all would be very gratefully received.

Sorry if this is a stupid question. I’m new to this…
RichardA

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FransN
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Re: Request for advice on finding biographical info on members of SS-Kavallerie regiments

Postby FransN » 16 May 2018 21:48

Welcome to the forum! Your question is not stupid at all. The forum is here to try and help you (and others).
Although this is not quite the field I focus on, I gave it a try. However, and provided that the names are correctly spelled, I could not find any hit on your names in the following sources:
John P. Moore: "Führerliste der Waffen-SS", J.P.Moore Publishing, Portland 2002 (comprises info on 26,000 Waffen-SS officers)
Mark C. Yerger: "Riding East: The SS Cavalry Brigade in Poland and Russia 1939-1942", SchifferMilitary History, Atglen, 1996.
Hanns Bayer: "Die Kavallerie der Waffen-SS", Truppenkameradschaft der Kavalleriedivisionen, Gaiberg/Heidelber, 1980 (book is in German)
Charles Trang: "La Division "Florian Geyer", Heimdal Éditions, Bayeux, 2000 (book is in French + English).
Maybe the Bundesarchiv section in Berlin can help you out?
Regards, Frans

Any other forum member maybe?

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Re: Request for advice on finding biographical info on members of SS-Kavallerie regiments

Postby RichardA » 17 May 2018 07:12

Thank you very much for the encouraging reply. One problem is that some of the names may not be correctly spelled. I've seen Oskar Lengnick spelled as Oscar and as Lengnik in contemporary German news reports, and Kurt Scharffetter spelled as Curt and as Scharfetter. Sometimes there are two different spellings in the same article! So if anyone is aware of any SS cavalry members whose names are even roughly like the ones I've listed, I'd be interested to know about them. Many thanks for the info about sources, anyway.
RichardA

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FransN
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Re: Request for advice on finding biographical info on members of SS-Kavallerie regiments

Postby FransN » 17 May 2018 09:12

Hi Richard,

I found something on Dr. Herbert Böttcher (however not on the other names) in
Mark C. Yerger: "Allgemeine-SS. The commands, units and leaders of the General SS", Schiffer Military History, Atglen, 1997:

on page 55:
"Born April 24, 1907 in Memelland, the son of a local politician, he received a doctorate law in 1931. He joined the SS as an SS-Sturmbannführer on March 23, 1939, with 105. SS-Standarte. Böttcher led I. Sturmbann until August 1939 and then commanded the Standarte until March 1941, during which he was promoted to SS-Obersturmbannführer on August 1, 1940. From March to October, 1940, he was also Police Director for the Memel area. For the next year he was assigned to the staff of Abschnitt XXX and was promoted to SS-Standartenführer on October 9, 1941, to SS-Oberführer on April 20, 1943, and to SS-Brigadeführer on November 9, 1944 as well as obtaining Polizei rank. From March to October, 1942, he served on the staff of the RSHA and after that was officially on the staff of Oberabschnitt "Ost" for the duration. He served as Police President of Kassel from October, 1940, to May, 1942. As SSPF "Radom" he served from May, 1942, to January, 1945. He was tied by the Poles and hanged in Warsaw on June 12, 1950."

"SS und Polizeiführer "Radom"
May 12, 1942 to January 16, 1945
SS-Standartenführer, after April 20, 1943 SS-Oberführer, after November 1, 1943 also Oberst der Polizei, after November 9, 1944 SS-Brigadeführer und Generalmajor der Polizei Dr. Herbert Böttcher."

"105. SS-Standarte was based in Memel.
August 1, 1939 to March 15, 1941
SS-Sturmbannführer, after August 1, 1940 SS-Obersturmbannführer Dr. Herbert Böttcher

His name does not, however, appear in the "Dienstaltersliste der Schutzstaffel der NSDAP (SS-Oberst-Gruppenführer - SS-Standartenführer), Stand vom 9. November 1944", SS-Personalhauptamt, Berlin, 1944.

Regards,
Frans

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Re: Request for advice on finding biographical info on members of SS-Kavallerie regiments

Postby George_W » 17 May 2018 09:17

Little correction:

Herbert Böttcher was tried and executed in Radom not in Warsaw.

He was extradited to Poland by the British authorities in October 1947.

George

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Re: Request for advice on finding biographical info on members of SS-Kavallerie regiments

Postby FransN » 17 May 2018 09:43

Thanks for the correction George!
Richard, here some more info on Hans Schmidt. It should be noted that Hans Schmidt is a very common German name, so without any further details, I'm not sure the info below is about your guy.

"Dienstaltersliste der Schutzstaffel der NSDAP, SS-Obersturmbannführer und SS-Sturmbannführer, Stand vom 1. Oktober 1943", SS-Personalhauptamt, Berlin, 1943:
entry 3068:
Name/Vorname: Schmidt, Hans
Degen/Ring: Ring
Dienststellung: F. II/68 (which probably means: CO of II. Sturmbann of 68. SS-Standarte)
Partei-Nr.: 318978
SS-Nr.: 18606
Geburtsdatum: 25.3.10
Führer-, bzw. Offz.-Dienstgrad bei der Waffen-SS, Wehrmacht, Polizei: Oblt. d. R. (1st lieutenant of the reserve)
Sturmbannführer: 30.1.43

"Dienstaltersliste der Schutzstaffel der NSDAP, SS-Obersturmbannführer und SS-Sturmbannführer, Stand vom 1. Oktober 1944", SS-Personalhauptamt, Berlin, 1944:
entry 2888: Same data as above.

There is also another Hans Schmidt listed in DAL 1.10.1944
entry 3381:
Name/Vorname: Schmidt, Hans
Degen/Ring: -
Dienststellung: RSi-Hauptamt
Partei-Nr.: 0048259
SS-Nr.: 347186
Geburtsdatum: 30.08.05
Führer-, bzw. Offz.-Dienstgrad bei der Waffen-SS, Wehrmacht, Polizei: -
Sturmbannführer: 09.11.1943

Regards,
Frans

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Re: Request for advice on finding biographical info on members of SS-Kavallerie regiments

Postby GregSingh » 17 May 2018 09:59

Curt Scharffetter appeared as landowner in Janischken (2km from Memel). Unfortunately nothing about his career in SS.

Curt Scharffetter.jpg


Oskar Lengnick also on landowners list, in Damerau. Here misspelled as Leugnick.

Oskar Lengnick.jpg
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RichardA
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Re: Request for advice on finding biographical info on members of SS-Kavallerie regiments

Postby RichardA » 17 May 2018 17:08

Hi Frans
Thank you so much. This is brilliant. It would be fascinating if this Herbert Böttcher was the "H Böttcher" I'm looking for. My one worry is that I can't see anything in those details that suggests that he was a horseman. If it's the right person, I'd have expected him to belong to a
SS-Reiterstandarte. But perhaps there's a reason why he didn't. Memelland certainly sounds like the kind of place where he might have been born. Anyway, you've given me a starting-point, so thank you very much...


FransN wrote:Hi Richard,

I found something on Dr. Herbert Böttcher (however not on the other names) in
Mark C. Yerger: "Allgemeine-SS. The commands, units and leaders of the General SS", Schiffer Military History, Atglen, 1997:

on page 55:
"Born April 24, 1907 in Memelland, the son of a local politician, he received a doctorate law in 1931. He joined the SS as an SS-Sturmbannführer on March 23, 1939, with 105. SS-Standarte. Böttcher led I. Sturmbann until August 1939 and then commanded the Standarte until March 1941, during which he was promoted to SS-Obersturmbannführer on August 1, 1940. From March to October, 1940, he was also Police Director for the Memel area. For the next year he was assigned to the staff of Abschnitt XXX and was promoted to SS-Standartenführer on October 9, 1941, to SS-Oberführer on April 20, 1943, and to SS-Brigadeführer on November 9, 1944 as well as obtaining Polizei rank. From March to October, 1942, he served on the staff of the RSHA and after that was officially on the staff of Oberabschnitt "Ost" for the duration. He served as Police President of Kassel from October, 1940, to May, 1942. As SSPF "Radom" he served from May, 1942, to January, 1945. He was tied by the Poles and hanged in Warsaw on June 12, 1950."

"SS und Polizeiführer "Radom"
May 12, 1942 to January 16, 1945
SS-Standartenführer, after April 20, 1943 SS-Oberführer, after November 1, 1943 also Oberst der Polizei, after November 9, 1944 SS-Brigadeführer und Generalmajor der Polizei Dr. Herbert Böttcher."

"105. SS-Standarte was based in Memel.
August 1, 1939 to March 15, 1941
SS-Sturmbannführer, after August 1, 1940 SS-Obersturmbannführer Dr. Herbert Böttcher

His name does not, however, appear in the "Dienstaltersliste der Schutzstaffel der NSDAP (SS-Oberst-Gruppenführer - SS-Standartenführer), Stand vom 9. November 1944", SS-Personalhauptamt, Berlin, 1944.

Regards,
Frans
RichardA

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Re: Request for advice on finding biographical info on members of SS-Kavallerie regiments

Postby RichardA » 17 May 2018 17:11

GregSingh wrote:Curt Scharffetter appeared as landowner in Janischken (2km from Memel). Unfortunately nothing about his career in SS.

Curt Scharffetter.jpg

Oskar Lengnick also on landowners list, in Damerau. Here misspelled as Leugnick.

Oskar Lengnick.jpg


Thank you. Every detail is useful to me – even new misspellings!
RichardA

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Re: Request for advice on finding biographical info on members of SS-Kavallerie regiments

Postby RichardA » 17 May 2018 17:50

Thank you. There certainly do seem to have been a lot of Hans Schmidts out there. Either of those two could be my guy – although a 1910 date of birth makes the first one a little on the young side. (He would have won one of Europe's biggest steeplechases when he was 18.) The trouble is, again, I can't see anything to connect either of these guys with the cavalry. As before, though, you've given me a bit more to go on, so many thanks.
Also, I've seen a 1939 magazine article in which my Hans Schmidt is referred to as SS-Untersturmführer. Is that compatible with the ranks and dates for the two Schmidts you've found?

FransN wrote:Thanks for the correction George!
Richard, here some more info on Hans Schmidt. It should be noted that Hans Schmidt is a very common German name, so without any further details, I'm not sure the info below is about your guy.

"Dienstaltersliste der Schutzstaffel der NSDAP, SS-Obersturmbannführer und SS-Sturmbannführer, Stand vom 1. Oktober 1943", SS-Personalhauptamt, Berlin, 1943:
entry 3068:
Name/Vorname: Schmidt, Hans
Degen/Ring: Ring
Dienststellung: F. II/68 (which probably means: CO of II. Sturmbann of 68. SS-Standarte)
Partei-Nr.: 318978
SS-Nr.: 18606
Geburtsdatum: 25.3.10
Führer-, bzw. Offz.-Dienstgrad bei der Waffen-SS, Wehrmacht, Polizei: Oblt. d. R. (1st lieutenant of the reserve)
Sturmbannführer: 30.1.43

"Dienstaltersliste der Schutzstaffel der NSDAP, SS-Obersturmbannführer und SS-Sturmbannführer, Stand vom 1. Oktober 1944", SS-Personalhauptamt, Berlin, 1944:
entry 2888: Same data as above.

There is also another Hans Schmidt listed in DAL 1.10.1944
entry 3381:
Name/Vorname: Schmidt, Hans
Degen/Ring: -
Dienststellung: RSi-Hauptamt
Partei-Nr.: 0048259
SS-Nr.: 347186
Geburtsdatum: 30.08.05
Führer-, bzw. Offz.-Dienstgrad bei der Waffen-SS, Wehrmacht, Polizei: -
Sturmbannführer: 09.11.1943

Regards,
Frans
RichardA

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Re: Request for advice on finding biographical info on members of SS-Kavallerie regiments

Postby George_W » 17 May 2018 17:55

And one more addition. To be more precisely:

SS-Brigadeführer und Generalmajor der Polizei Dr. Herbert Kurt Böttcher was born in Prökuls Kreis Memel (Memelland).

Unfortunately i do not know if he is similar to that "H. Böttcher" from Your list, but i know that Dr. Herbert Kurt Böttcher was Polizei officer, before being assigned to Kassel and Radom he was Landesdirektor in Memel and next Polizeidirektor in Memel.

I can't see any connections between him and SS-Reiterstandarte.

George

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Re: Request for advice on finding biographical info on members of SS-Kavallerie regiments

Postby RichardA » 17 May 2018 18:12

PS: Actually, though, those details about land-owning are very useful. These guys kept horses & so would probably have needed some land to keep them on. And if those details are right, it really helps to narrow things down. So thank you

GregSingh wrote:Curt Scharffetter appeared as landowner in Janischken (2km from Memel). Unfortunately nothing about his career in SS.

Curt Scharffetter.jpg

Oskar Lengnick also on landowners list, in Damerau. Here misspelled as Leugnick.

Oskar Lengnick.jpg
RichardA

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Re: Request for advice on finding biographical info on members of SS-Kavallerie regiments

Postby RichardA » 17 May 2018 18:17

Hi George. Thank you. Herbert Kurt Böttcher is certainly an interesting figure, and he came from the right kind of place. But you're right: there's no visible connection between him and SS-Reiterstandarte. If anyone can find a link, I'll be thrilled. But the career details I've been able to find somehow don't seem very consistent with him being able to compete in steeplechases at elite/international level in 1933 and 1936. But you never know...


George_W wrote:And one more addition. To be more precisely:

SS-Brigadeführer und Generalmajor der Polizei Dr. Herbert Kurt Böttcher was born in Prökuls Kreis Memel (Memelland).

Unfortunately i do not know if he is similar to that "H. Böttcher" from Your list, but i know that Dr. Herbert Kurt Böttcher was Polizei officer, before being assigned to Kassel and Radom he was Landesdirektor in Memel and next Polizeidirektor in Memel.

I can't see any connections between him and SS-Reiterstandarte.

George
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Re: Request for advice on finding biographical info on members of SS-Kavallerie regiments

Postby lazybather » 17 May 2018 18:41

Here are a couple of 'H. Böttcher' officers:

SS-Ustuf. Herbert Böttcher
born in Gunsdorf on 5.6.1913.
SS Nr.: 8.134.

SS-Ostuf. Herbert Böttcher
born in Stettin on 29.10.1903.
SS Nr.: 459.

Stuart. :-)

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Re: Request for advice on finding biographical info on members of SS-Kavallerie regiments

Postby GregSingh » 18 May 2018 00:35

Oskar Lengnick, no birth place unfortunately, so we don't know if this one was from East Prussia.
Born 21 June 1913, SS-number 153357, SS-Obersturmführer from 30 January 1939.
Not too reliable source, but worth further checking.
http://www.dws-xip.pl/reich/biografie/numery/numer153.html


That might not be correct, but according to this article Scharfetter (note only one f) was SS-Oberscharführer when he won an opening race in Zakopane/Poland in December 1938.

28.Dec.1938.jpg


And fragment of his photo from NAC. Zakopane, Dec. 1938

PIC_1-M-1062-1.jpg
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