SS rune on chest

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tippette
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SS rune on chest

Post by tippette » 05 Dec 2021 21:56

Good evening everybody,
The picture shows Anton Galler who belonged to the 35 regiment 16 ss RF at the end of 1944. He is supposed to be involved in the Stazzema shooting.
It seems to belong to Polizei division so may be he moved to 16 ss.
The question is:
why the runes on the chest and not on collar?
I saw this particular sometimes on uniforms, it was tipical of Polizei division?
Thank you
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von thoma
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Re: SS rune on chest

Post by von thoma » 05 Dec 2021 22:51

SS Membership Runes for Order Police

The SS Membership Runes for Order Police was a badge worn by members of the uniformed order police or Ordnungspolizei (Orpo) of Nazi Germany who were also full members of the Schutzstaffel (SS). The badge was centered on the lower left hand jacket pocket and appeared as two white Sig Runes, itself the symbol of the SS.

The SS Membership Runes were the first step in a merger of the Order Police and the SS, with Kurt Daluege and Heinrich Himmler both agreeing on a total merger of the SS and Police in Germany. This process was taken one step further in 1942, when all Orpo Police Generals were granted equivalent SS rank and began wearing modified SS-Police rank insignia.

SS-Police Rank.jpg
SS-Runes.jpg

https://www.emedals.com/germany-a-set-o ... unic-runes
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JoeW
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Re: SS rune on chest

Post by JoeW » 06 Dec 2021 15:13

Those policemen who were members of the SS had to apply for permission to wear the Sieg-Runen. Certificates were issued to them.

tippette
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Re: SS rune on chest

Post by tippette » 06 Dec 2021 21:15

I need a clarification. Only SS belonging to police division had this symbol or even someone enlisted in different SS divison?
Thank you very much.

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von thoma
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Re: SS rune on chest

Post by von thoma » 06 Dec 2021 22:37

Only SS belonging to police division had this symbol or even someone enlisted in different SS divison ?
No, it was worn by any branch of the German police.
" The right to believe is the right of those who don't know "

tippette
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Re: SS rune on chest

Post by tippette » 08 Dec 2021 21:17

Ok, now I understand. Thank you.

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Hans1906
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Re: SS rune on chest

Post by Hans1906 » 09 Dec 2021 03:09

SS breast rune

An SS Members Runic Breast Insignia
In silver wire thread, on field grey cloth, an unissued example, showing same age, in very fine condition. In July of 1943 wear of this type of runic SS breast insignia was extended to all SS personnel serving in one of the Waffen-SS units who did not qualify to wear the SS runic collar tab: among these units were 7.SS-Freiwillingen- "Prinz Eugen"; 4.SS-Polizei-Panzer-Grenadier-Division; 11.SS-Freiwillingen-Panzer-Grenadier-Division "Nordland", and others. The runic insignia was worn just below the left breast pocket of the uniform, and the color of runic insignia matched the color of the uniform (black, field grey, or police green).

Established by order of the Reichsführer SS in 1943, the runic breast badge was intended for SS members serving in a Waffen SS unit using a special unit tab insignia or the police units or forces, who otherwise would have been authorized to wear the runic collar insignia. The badge is made of field grey green wool as worn by the police with fine, tightly hand embroidered SS runes in aluminum bullion. The correct underlay for the bullion is present, giving the runes a very three-dimensional quality. The original protective backing paper is still attached, and the badge was attached to a tunic at one time. The piece shows light use and the stitching holes are evident along the edges. The badge was originally purchased from noted SS collector Robert Hassler, and is a fine example of a scarce SS insignia.

S012468 SCHUTZPOLIZEI MAJOR'S SERVICE TUNIC WITH DRESS AIGUILLETTE. (Dienstrock mit Achselband)

BACKGROUND: On June 17TH 1936, Reichsführer-SS Heinrich Himmler was appointed to the newly created position of Chef der Deutschen Polizei im Reichsministerium des Innern, (Chief of the German Police in the National Ministry of the Interior), effectively giving him full control of all police agencies within Germany. As a result of this appointment and the restructuring of all the separate German state police into a single national police force new regulations were instituted on June 25TH 1936 to bring about uniformity in dress for all police through-out the country. One of the new uniform regulations replaced the previously worn blue uniforms with a new style police green uniform that was utilized, with minor modifications, until the end of the war. The police were divided into eight assorted branches of service and during the restructuring the different police agencies were assigned specific identifying "truppenfarbe" (Troop {Branch of Service} Colors), with green truppenfarbe being allocated to the Schutzpolizei des Reiches, (National Protection Police). On the service tunic the truppenfarbe was generally displayed as the base of the shoulder boards/straps and the collar tabs as well as on ornamental piping. Police Officers holding the rank of Polizei-Leutnant to Generaloberst der Polizei were responsible for purchasing their own uniforms and could purchase them through the SS-Kleiderkasse, (Clothing Account), system which was originally established in Munich in 1935. The Officers were allotted a one time clothing allowance from the government with the amount varying depending on the individuals rank. The ranks of Polizei Unterwachtmeister to Polizei-Obermeister were issued their uniforms although they could also choose to purchase privately tailored garments of higher quality although the price may have been restrictive. Of Note: The German Police had no enlisted ranks with the lowest rank being an Unterwachtmeister which was equivalent to the German army rank of Unteroffizier. On January 16TH 1937 Reichsführer-SS Heinrich Himmler introduced a runic SS breast badge for wear by former Allgemeine-SS, (General-SS), personnel serving with the Ordnungspolizei, (Order Police). In July 1943 wear of the runic SS breast badge was extended to all full fledged SS personnel who were serving with the police and personnel in one of the Waffen-SS units that were not entitled to wear the SS runic collar tab. Further regulations in 1937 also introduced a specific parade dress uniform that included the Reichswehr pattern aiguillette to be worn by all officers ranks.

PHYSICAL DESCRIPTION: Nice quality, private purchase, Police green, wool/rayon blend construction service tunic with a subtle whipcord weave features a vertical, eight button front closure with dual metal hooks and eyes at the forward neckline and a lay down collar. The edges of both of the front closure panels are trimmed in green wool, truppenfarben piping. The tunic has two, pleated, patch, breast pockets and two non-pleated, patch hip pockets, all with scalloped button down flaps. The upper right breast has a Reichswehr pattern, officer’s dress aiguillette suspended from the second top front closure button and an additional button positioned beneath the right shoulder board. The aiguillette is tied in the correct manner and is in overall good condition with light age tarnish and a tear in the button hole attachment. The left breast has seven vertical and eight horizontal thread loops for wear of a medal/ribbon bar and awards. The lower left breast has a hand embroidered SS runes in bright silver/aluminum wire threads on a cut-out police green wool base. The runes are still quite clean and bright and the base is neatly handstitched to the tunic. The straight cut, sleeves have non-adjustable, simulated French cuffs in chocolate brown wool with dual ornamental buttons to the outside sleeve seams and green wool truppenfarben piping to the top and forward edges. The upper left sleeve has a hand embroidered, wreathed police eagle in bright silver/aluminum wire and bullion threads with a black swastika on a cut-out, vertically oval, ribbed police green wool base. The police eagle is neatly handstitched to the sleeve. The reverse of the tunic has a central vertical tail skirt vent with two ornamental buttons to the top edge and an additional two ornamental buttons to the bottom edge. The tail skirt vent is flanked by small, ornamentally, vertical panels which are piped in green wool truppenfarben. The tunic has sewn on shoulder boards with bright, interwoven silver/aluminum braids mounted on green wool truppenfarben bases. The shoulder boards are still quite clean and bright. The shoulder board retaining buttons are intact. The reverse of the chocolate brown wool lay down collar has the typical zig-zag reinforcement stitching. The forward edge of the collar is piped in green wool truppenfarben and the collar features hand embroidered collar tab litzen in bright silver/aluminum wire threads with the regulations "V" patterned silver/aluminum wire "branch of service stripes", mounted on green wool truppenfarben bases. The collar tabs are machine stitched to the collar. The interior of the tunic is fully lined in ribbed grey/green rayon with black striped, white rayon sleeves. The lining has a horizontal slash pocket to the left breast and two small vertical slash "glove" pockets to the reverse of the tail skirt vent. The lining has a vertical, grey rayon strap with an HBT, (Herring Bone Twill), weave and a nickel/silver plated steel friction clip machine stitched to the left armpit seam for suspending the dagger/sword hangers. The reverse of the exterior left hip pocket has a small corresponding horizontal slash also for the dagger/sword hangers. The lining also has the addition of two, wide, grey/green rayon panels situated at either side of the waistline with the right side panel having four vertically aligned buttons with corresponding button eyelets to the left side panel. The tunic has no visible size or manufacturers markings. The aiguillette button and the internal waistline panel buttons are the molded tan bakelite type while the balance of the buttons are the bright silver washed, pebbled sheet metal type and are still quite clean and bright. All the buttons appear to have their original stitching. The tunic is roughly size 40" chest. Shows the expected age and use. Nicely quality tunic.

Here we have an early SS-Police Officers Membership Breast Insignia (SS-Runen Brustabzeichen für Offiziere der Schutzpolizei). In July of 1943 wear of this type of runic SS breast insignia was extended to all SS personnel serving in one of the Waffen-SS units who did not qualify to wear the SS runic collar tab. This would be worn just below the left breast pocket. It is constructed out of silver-bullion flatwire thread that has been hand stitched to a police green wool and black buckram backing. The obverse features two silver SS sig runes above a green wool backing. The reverse is black. There is little calcification to the runes.
No idea anymore, where I picked all this up, sorry
(But sometimes, the smallest details are important...)


Hans
Es ist im Leben wichtig, viel zu wissen.
Manchmal ist es noch wichtiger, zu wissen, daß man nichts weiß.

Linkagain
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Re: SS rune on chest

Post by Linkagain » 09 Dec 2021 04:00

who is the SS Police General in Message 2?

Andrey
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Re: SS rune on chest

Post by Andrey » 09 Dec 2021 06:10

Kurt Daluege.

Andrey.

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Ivan Ž.
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Re: SS rune on chest

Post by Ivan Ž. » 09 Dec 2021 15:07

Hans1906 wrote:
09 Dec 2021 03:09
No idea anymore, where I picked all this up, sorry
If you'd googled them (and it only takes a minute), you'd have found the sources for most of the quotes, which should have been posted separately (if posted at all), as they were copied from four different online stores:

1st https://www.emedals.com/an-ss-members-r ... nia-g16131
2nd seems to be removed
3rd https://www.germanmilitaria.com/waffens ... 12468.html
4th https://www.lakesidetrader.com/item.php?ID=19042

Ivan

JoeW
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Re: SS rune on chest

Post by JoeW » 09 Dec 2021 17:47

Some of the details from the dealer sites are incorrect. In the background information about the Schupo Major tunic, the runes were worn by members of the German police who were active members of the Allgemeine SS, not former members as the dealer states. Also in the last paragraph, the runic patch was available to all ranks of the Ordnungspolizei, not just officers. Here is an example of the award documents presented to members who were authorized to purchase and wear the Runes.
Ss rune permission small.JPG
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Derek
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Re: SS rune on chest

Post by Derek » 09 Dec 2021 23:41

Thank you posting that document Joe. Is one of those printed by Mayr?

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Hans1906
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Re: SS rune on chest

Post by Hans1906 » 10 Dec 2021 14:30

Thanks JoeW,

a very interesting document, unfortunately in very small resolution.
I have personally never seen, thank you for sharing.


Hans
Es ist im Leben wichtig, viel zu wissen.
Manchmal ist es noch wichtiger, zu wissen, daß man nichts weiß.

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Hans1906
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Re: SS rune on chest

Post by Hans1906 » 10 Dec 2021 18:30

Btw, the document was signed by Friedrich Karl Freiherr von Eberstein, you can see that quite clearly from the signature (printed?) at the time.

Friedrich Karl von Eberstein https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich ... _Eberstein

Example: https://www.huesken.com/shop/de/autogra ... 27887.html


Hans
Es ist im Leben wichtig, viel zu wissen.
Manchmal ist es noch wichtiger, zu wissen, daß man nichts weiß.

Linkagain
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Re: SS rune on chest

Post by Linkagain » 10 Dec 2021 18:56

Thanks for identification of SS Police general in message 2 :thumbsup: :welcome:

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