Death of Christian Wirth

Discussions on all aspects of the SS and Polizei. Hosted by Andrey.
Max Williams
Member
Posts: 11158
Joined: 04 Feb 2003, 17:57
Location: South UK

Re: Death of Christian Wirth

#61

Post by Max Williams » 16 Jun 2015, 15:51

trekker wrote:
Max Williams wrote:"Frequently" means "from time to time, more than a few".
If that is so my translation was not adequate. The Slovene word »pogosto« is not just "from time to time, more than a few", it is »often«
'Often' is also correct, but more extreme.
trekker wrote:As I remember historian Tone Ferenc wrote about it and explained how Wirth was charged with the security of the road hence his often travels.
Again, if that is to be believed (which I find difficult, but not impossible) he didn't do a very good job of it! I am yet to be convinced.

filigranofil
Member
Posts: 446
Joined: 31 Oct 2013, 23:52
Location: Ljubljana

Re: Death of Christian Wirth

#62

Post by filigranofil » 17 Jun 2015, 00:32

Hello,

I allready put Document about Wirth appointment as "Sicherheitkommandant" for the road Triest-Rijeka/Fiume (nowadays Croatia).
filigranofil wrote:Hello,

after Globocnik appointment (May 1944) Wirth was "Sicherheitkommandant"responsable for Anti_Partisan combat for the area of road Triest-Fiume.
Globocnik ordered also that Wirth must do confining of his area till 14th. May 1944...

Image

Enlarging...

Image

The Plan was never done...


regards
Darko
Unfortunatly was Document not dated, but it is clear that must be from beginning of May 1944.

It was said that Wirth must made some project of defining the teritory of security for the road. Because of this project he must travel to Rijeka/Fiume and other places in Istria. Project of definning the teritory must be finished till 14th May 1944.

But he did not travel so frequently, because he was killed on 26.5.1944. So, only few weeks, of course not every day because he must do some paperwork in the office in Triest.

Date of Death is 100% right, while we can see notes about Date of Death in Wirth personal map (Quelle: Tone Ferenc: Satan: Page 73).

Wirth was underestimating Partisans. Of course he had possibility to take biger armed escort with.
I suppose, he had no solders knowledge. Globocnik put him on that Position because of his brutality against People in this teritory (Slovenian and Croats), to frighten them with masacres.

regards
Darko


filigranofil
Member
Posts: 446
Joined: 31 Oct 2013, 23:52
Location: Ljubljana

Re: Death of Christian Wirth

#63

Post by filigranofil » 17 Jun 2015, 19:55

Hello,

I will put here some Photos, to show, that Partisans ambush was close to German ambush and close to Kozina Railway Stations, full of Germans soldiers.

I allready put here map...

filigranofil wrote:Hello,

another Book which is also occupy wit Wirth death is from Maks Zadnik: Istrski odred, Nova Gorica 1975.
Fighters from 1. Bataillon of Istrski odred killed Christian Wirth at 7 am on 26. May 1944 between Krvavi Potok and Kozina, about 1 km before Kozina.

Image

red: partisan ambush

black: German ambush

orange: custum officers observation

regards
Darko

Partisans Ambush was somewhere in this part of the road Triest-Kozina...

Image


Close up...

Image


It is not so far from Triest...

Image


Close up...Triest Harbour

Image


regards
Darko

filigranofil
Member
Posts: 446
Joined: 31 Oct 2013, 23:52
Location: Ljubljana

Re: Death of Christian Wirth

#64

Post by filigranofil » 17 Jun 2015, 22:34

Hello,

Partisan Unit "Istrski Odred" had make several Aktions (attacks on Railway and roads) in the perod from 18.th May till 30. June 1944...

Image
Map from Book: M.Zadnik: Istrski odred

X = Attack on Wirths car


regards
Darko

filigranofil
Member
Posts: 446
Joined: 31 Oct 2013, 23:52
Location: Ljubljana

Re: Death of Christian Wirth

#65

Post by filigranofil » 01 Aug 2015, 23:45

Hello,
filigranofil wrote:
First time was Wirth name mentioned as "unknown SS-Major" in Newspaper "Il meridiano di Trieste" (April 1972).

Konrad Geng, driver of Wirth, was said in interogation in 1972 that in the car was killed Wirth, he and one Ukrain member from "Einsatzkommando" named Nikola was wounded.
Konrad Geng was after WW 2 hiding by relatives of his wife in Italy.
After that noticed in newspaper was first time that Author Maks Zadnik find connection Wirth with this action on "unknown SS-Major".
He published his finding in Article: Komandant Treblinke in Rižarne je padel pri Kozini (in slowenian Language), TV 15, 1.6.1972.

regards
Darko
actually was first interoggation of Konrad Geng at 1. September 1970:

Image

Geng was driving Wirths car on 26.May 1944 from Trieste/Trst to Fiume/Rijeka and was woundet. Wirth was killed.


regards
Darko

stryder
Member
Posts: 82
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 21:49
Location: Avalon

Re: Death of Christian Wirth

#66

Post by stryder » 11 Aug 2015, 21:45

I am curious if the identity of the Ukranian Nickola has ever been established? I would like to know if it was Nikolai Shaleyev , the sadistic guard of Treblinka. Nikolai is a common Ukranian first name, and there were several Trawniki guards named Nikolai, so the odds are small that it was Shaleyev.

filigranofil
Member
Posts: 446
Joined: 31 Oct 2013, 23:52
Location: Ljubljana

Re: Death of Christian Wirth

#67

Post by filigranofil » 31 Dec 2015, 16:54

Hello,

it is interesting that also well known Austrian Historian Dr. August Walzl "fall on" rumors that Wirth had been killed by his own men...

From the History Book: Dr. August Walzl: Kärnten 1945, Carinthia 1985

Image

Image


It is interesting for the Historian, not to put Source for "fact".


regards
Darko

history1
Banned
Posts: 4095
Joined: 31 Oct 2005, 10:12
Location: Austria

Re: Death of Christian Wirth

#68

Post by history1 » 02 Jan 2016, 13:47

Hi Darko,

your statement isn´t entirely true. If Walzl would believe or fall on the rumors that Wirth got killed by his own men the sentence would be " Ihr Leiter war zuerst SS-Sturmbannführer Ch. Wirth der [...] von den eigenen Leuten getötet worden ist " and not " Ihr Leiter war zuerst SS-Sturmbannführer Ch. Wirth der [...] von den eigenen Leuten getötet worden sein soll". The same is correct for the next sentence about Dietrich Allers, note the terms "soll [...] haben" and "angeblich". Not words which I would choose when being sure about some facts or details.
Dr. Walzl can not provide the source of "facts" whe he´s sharing only guesswork from hearsay.

Regards,
Roman

filigranofil
Member
Posts: 446
Joined: 31 Oct 2013, 23:52
Location: Ljubljana

Re: Death of Christian Wirth

#69

Post by filigranofil » 03 Jan 2016, 00:07

Hi Roman,

you are completly right, that Dr. Walzl put only guesswork from hearsay.
Yes, sentence of his statement is such, that it is possibility, that his own man killed him.

But on the other hand, he knew, that somewhere in Literature (which he want not to mention in the Book) is statement with some sources who killed Wirth.
He knew exactly the Unit, which should killed him.
As a Historian, he must tell us, what is wrong with this sources before he as specialist decide for roumors.
It was enough to say, that sources for "Istrski odred" are not trustworthy and that some members of "Einheit R" said in interrogation procedure before German judge, that could some member of "Einheit R" killed Wirth.
I was suprised, that well known Historian instead to balance sources decide for roumors, thats all.
But I understand, that the Historians has a big gap with the works of slovenian Historian because of language. As for instance have a problem with english or german language.
Antoine de Saint-Exupery: Language is the source of misunderstandings :wink:


regards
Darko

stryder
Member
Posts: 82
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 21:49
Location: Avalon

Re: Death of Christian Wirth

#70

Post by stryder » 22 Jul 2016, 00:10

I was reading recently on another thread that Ernst Lerch had been sent to the site of the ambush at least twice to look for evidence of who may have been involved. He reported that on one occasion he was shot at. It seems that particular road must have been used quite frequently by German units, and that the road was watched closely. More evidence in my opinion that Wirth's travel habits were well known to the locals, and thus the partisans as well.

filigranofil
Member
Posts: 446
Joined: 31 Oct 2013, 23:52
Location: Ljubljana

Re: Death of Christian Wirth

#71

Post by filigranofil » 03 Jul 2017, 22:39

Hello,

this is official Dokument about Wirths death:

Image

On the bussines trip from Triest to Fiume was killed on 26.5.1944 by Partisans (bandits in german way of expression).

I suppose, that no Historian can say nothing else if he had no other evidence.

regards
Darko

User avatar
Ivan Ž.
Host - Music section
Posts: 8467
Joined: 05 Apr 2005, 13:28
Location: Serbia

Re: Death of Christian Wirth

#72

Post by Ivan Ž. » 04 Jul 2017, 02:24

:thumbsup: for the document, Darko [and for the previously posted files too].

Cheers,
Ivan

Max Williams
Member
Posts: 11158
Joined: 04 Feb 2003, 17:57
Location: South UK

Re: Death of Christian Wirth

#73

Post by Max Williams » 04 Jul 2017, 10:17

Just a small point - Dienstfahrt is not a business trip. Literally it is a service journey, i.e. he was carrying out his duty. A business trip implies he was not on duty.
Interestingly, the memo notes his Totenkopfring and SS Civilian Badge were not among his possessions. Both had to be returned to the SS Personnel Office on the death of the recipient.
Max.

filigranofil
Member
Posts: 446
Joined: 31 Oct 2013, 23:52
Location: Ljubljana

Re: Death of Christian Wirth

#74

Post by filigranofil » 04 Jul 2017, 21:58

Hello Max,

thanks for correction.

My english is not the best, I was learning English in communism an have no practice.
I was working on post also in the late night without dictionary.

But today I check the dictionary and I was surprised. Also Dictionary must be put together in communism :wink: :D

PONS: http://sl.pons.com/prevod?q=slu%C5%BEbe ... n=sl&lf=sl
iti na službeno pót = to go on a business trip

I suppose that English is complicated and also slovenian, my mothers tongue, is also complicated. We have some specialities, for instance Dual:
link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_(grammatical_number)

So, from two complicated languages is not easy make very good Dictionary :idea:

And when is involved also German language in text, then is a big problem :D

regards
Darko

history1
Banned
Posts: 4095
Joined: 31 Oct 2005, 10:12
Location: Austria

Re: Death of Christian Wirth

#75

Post by history1 » 05 Jul 2017, 06:58

Max Williams wrote:[...] Dienstfahrt is not a business trip. Literally it is a service journey, i.e. he was carrying out his duty. A business trip implies he was not on duty.
[...]
That´s strange, Max, because when I´m doing a business trip (Geschäftsreise = Dienstreise) it even requires that I´m on duty.
See also:
https://dict.leo.org/englisch-deutsch/g ... A4ftsreise
https://dict.leo.org/englisch-deutsch/dienstreise
https://www.dict.cc/?s=Dienstfahrt

Cheers,
Roman

Post Reply

Return to “The Phil Nix SS & Polizei section”