SS-Obergruppenführer

Discussions on all aspects of the SS and Polizei. Hosted by Andrey.
User avatar
von Putzbrunn
Member
Posts: 160
Joined: 30 Jun 2007 16:59
Location: Helsinki, Finland

SS-Obergruppenführer

Post by von Putzbrunn » 01 Jul 2007 13:21

Ive been trying to complete a list of ALL the SS-Obergruppenführer there ever were. I know the total amount is 98. I have managed to collect 74 names to that list wich means Im 24 names short! Does anyone know where I can find a complete list?

Max Williams
Member
Posts: 10253
Joined: 04 Feb 2003 16:57
Location: London

Post by Max Williams » 01 Jul 2007 14:02

On this forum! Use the search facility.
Max.

User avatar
von Putzbrunn
Member
Posts: 160
Joined: 30 Jun 2007 16:59
Location: Helsinki, Finland

Post by von Putzbrunn » 01 Jul 2007 17:51

Thanx a lot. That really helped!
Eric

ChristopherPerrien
Member
Posts: 7024
Joined: 26 Dec 2002 00:58
Location: Mississippi

Re: SS-Obergruppenführer

Post by ChristopherPerrien » 01 Jul 2007 18:48

Eichmann wrote:Ive been trying to complete a list of ALL the SS-Obergruppenführer there ever were. I know the total amount is 98. I have managed to collect 74 names to that list wich means Im 24 names short! Does anyone know where I can find a complete list?
98!? Seems like alot for such a small organization. "Too many chiefs, not enough indians".

Welcome to the Forum,

Chris

User avatar
Helly Angel
Member
Posts: 4661
Joined: 11 Mar 2002 20:00
Location: Venezuela (Southamerica)

Post by Helly Angel » 01 Jul 2007 19:12

"Eichmann" I think will be interesting if you post the list here... you know to complete it!

Mark Costa
Member
Posts: 2374
Joined: 26 Jul 2002 17:41
Location: USA

Post by Mark Costa » 02 Jul 2007 02:50

110 men actually held the rank of SS Obergruppenfuhrer OR wore the insignia of one. This number includes Heinrich Himmler and Rudolf Hess who both wore the insignia as well as Graf Von Helldorf who, although not an SS Obergruppenfuhrer, wore the insignia of one, as a General der Polizei. The number also includes the two foreign honorary ones:Eugen Ratzenberger and Franz Zeidner.

Mark Costa

User avatar
von Putzbrunn
Member
Posts: 160
Joined: 30 Jun 2007 16:59
Location: Helsinki, Finland

Post by von Putzbrunn » 02 Jul 2007 11:10

Thanks for the help, however its seems to be more difficult than I thought to complete the list! First I heard the total number of SS-Obergruppenführer was 98. Then 97. Then 110. Now on my list I have 108 (NOT included Himmler since he was Reichsführer). At request Im posting my list. If anyone could help out-please do.

Alpers, Friedrich
Amann, Max
Bach-Zelewski, Erich Julius Eberhard von dem
Backe, Herbert Ernst
Berger, Gottlob
Berkelmann, Theodor
Best, Dr. Karl Rudolf Werner
Bittrich, Wilhelm
Bohle, Ernst Wilhelm
Bormann, Martin
Bouhler, Dr. Philipp
Breithaupt, Franz
Buch, Walter
Bürckel, Josef
Darrè, Richard Walter
Demelhuber, Karl Maria
Diem, Christoph
Dietrich, Dr. Otto
Eberstein, Friedrich Karl Freiherr von
Eggeling, Joachim Albrecht
Eicke, Theodor
Eigruber, August
Fiehler, Karl
Foster, Albert
Frank, August
Frank, Karl Hermann
Gille, Herbert Otto
Gottberg, Curt von
Grawitz, Dr. Ernst Robert
Greifelt, Ulrich Heinrich Emil Richard
Greiser, Arthur Karl
Gutenberger, Karl
Heißmeyer, August
Helldorff, Wolf Heinrich Graf von
Henlein, Konrad
Herff, Maximilian von
Hess, Rudolf
Heydrich, Reinhard Tristan Eugen
Hildebrandt, Friedrich
Hildebrandt, Richard
Hilgenfeld, Erich
Höfle, Hermann
Hofmann, Otto
Jeckeln, Friedrich
Jury, Hugo
Jüttner, Hans
Kaltenbrunner, Ernst
Kammler, Hans
Kamptz, Jürgen von
Kasche, Siegfried
Kaufmann, Karl
Keppler, Georg
Keppler, Wilhelm
Klagges, Dietrich
Kleiheisterkamp, Matthias
Knoblauch, Kurt
Koppe, Wilhelm
Körner, Paul
Krüger, Friedrich Wilhelm
Krüger, Walter
Kurtz, Erich
Lammers, Dr. Hans
Lauterbacher, Hartmann
Lorenz, Werner
Martin, Benno
Maur, Heinrich von
Mazuw, Emil
Murr, Wilhelm
Neurath, Konstantin von
Oberg, Carl Albrecht
Pancke, Günther
Pfeffer-Wildenbruch
Phleps, Artur Martin
Pohl, Oswald
Prützmann, Hans Adolf
Querner, Rudolf
Ratzenberger, Eugen
Rauter, Hanns Albin
Rediess, Wilhelm
Reinefarth, Heinz
Reinhard, Wilhelm
Ribbentrop, Joachim von
Rösener, Erwin
Sachs, Ernst
Sauckel, Fritz
Scharfe, Paul
Scheel, Dr. med. Gustav Adolf
Schleßmann, Fritz
Schmauser, Heinrich
Schaub, Julius
Schmitt, Walter
Schulenberg, Friedrich Graf von der
Schwerk, Oskar
Seyss-Inquart, Dr. Arthur
Steiner, Felix Martin Julius
Stuckart, Dr. Wilhelm
Taubert, Siegfried
Wächtler, Fritz
Wahl, Karl
Waldeck und Pyrmont, Josias Erbprinz zu
Wegener, Paul
Weitzel, Fritz
Weizäcker, Freiherr Ernst von
Winkelmann, Otto
Wolff, Karl
Woyrsch, Udo von
Wünnenberg, Alfred Bernhard Julius Ernst
Zeidner, Franz

Mark Costa
Member
Posts: 2374
Joined: 26 Jul 2002 17:41
Location: USA

Post by Mark Costa » 02 Jul 2007 13:20

Eichmann:

Your list is pretty much complete. I include Daluege, Sepp Dietrich, Schwarz and Hausser as they were SS Obergruppenfuhrers as well before their promotions. I included Himmler as he wore the insignia before the SS became an independent org after the Blood Purge.

You have missed two men however:

Friedrich Rainer 6-21-43
Karl Hanke 1-30-44

And Erich Hilgenfeld WAS NOT an SS Obergruppenfuhrer.



Mark Costa

Max Williams
Member
Posts: 10253
Joined: 04 Feb 2003 16:57
Location: London

Post by Max Williams » 02 Jul 2007 14:23

Helldorf was not a SS-Obergruppenführer and did not wear SS-Obergruppenführer insignia. Post-February 1942 he wore three oakleaves with two stars on his collar patches, but on a green background. This was Polizei General insignia and not SS.
I have seen an original tunic of Helldorf in a private collection and the collar patches were a darkish green with golden wire embroidered insignia and surround. Daluege wore similar insignia (three stars) as Generaloberst d. Polizei, but the green background was slightly lighter.
Max.

Mark Costa
Member
Posts: 2374
Joined: 26 Jul 2002 17:41
Location: USA

Post by Mark Costa » 02 Jul 2007 15:11

Max:

I beg to differ on the color of collar tabs worn by von Helldorff. Per a previous thread I have shown that he did indeed wear BLACK instead of the light green tabs. The three photos below show the black tabs being worn. I agree with you that we WAS NOT an SS-Obergruppenführer but did wear the black tabs.

Mark
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
von Putzbrunn
Member
Posts: 160
Joined: 30 Jun 2007 16:59
Location: Helsinki, Finland

Post by von Putzbrunn » 02 Jul 2007 16:22

Thanks Mark and Max. Then it seems my list still ends at 108 men. So unless someone else have any other info, I take it that this list IS complete.

User avatar
von Putzbrunn
Member
Posts: 160
Joined: 30 Jun 2007 16:59
Location: Helsinki, Finland

Post by von Putzbrunn » 02 Jul 2007 16:26

Actually, shouldnt Hermann Fegelein be on this list as well???

Max Williams
Member
Posts: 10253
Joined: 04 Feb 2003 16:57
Location: London

Post by Max Williams » 02 Jul 2007 16:28

Then we'll just have to differ on that Mark. I do not accept that your photos conclusively show black collar patches. In black and white photos, they could just as easily be green and, as I said in my previous post, I have seen a real tunic that belonged to Helldorf and they were green. Darker than the usual collar patches, but still green. I prefer to trust my own eyes than poor quality black and white photos. Sorry, but you are making an assumption; I've seen the real thing.
Here's a black and white photo to contradict yours. Clearly showing gold embroidery on green. The Polizei Generalmajor sitting next to him in this photo wears exactly the same colour insignia.
I am also of the opinion that in your second photo (Helldorf02) the collar is a slightly different shade to the collar patch background.
Max.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Last edited by Max Williams on 02 Jul 2007 16:44, edited 2 times in total.

Max Williams
Member
Posts: 10253
Joined: 04 Feb 2003 16:57
Location: London

Post by Max Williams » 02 Jul 2007 16:38

Eichmann wrote:Actually, shouldnt Hermann Fegelein be on this list as well???
Fegelein was SS-Gruppenführer.
Max.

User avatar
von Putzbrunn
Member
Posts: 160
Joined: 30 Jun 2007 16:59
Location: Helsinki, Finland

Post by von Putzbrunn » 02 Jul 2007 16:44

Thats what I thought at first as well but, according for an example wikipedia, he was an Obergruppenführer. Confused about this...

Return to “The Phil Nix SS & Polizei section”