SS-Motorstandarten

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Mikedc
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Re: Motorstandarten

Post by Mikedc » 17 Jul 2009 16:28

Hello Fred,

Thank you very much.
Although I visit the Axis History Factbook on a regular base I must have overlooked this somehow.
But now I know that on 20-4-34 Hauptsturmführer was still Sturmhauptführer....

Mike

freddiefro
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Re: Motorstandarten

Post by freddiefro » 17 Jul 2009 17:09

Mike,

Well, somehow I’ve managed to accidentally delete my post about SS-Sturmhauptführer / SS-Hauptsturmführer which you then responded to. However, if anyone else is interested, what I had posted (and should really appear before Mike's last post) was that according to Axis History Factbook (see http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=3125), the rank designation of SS-Sturmhauptführer was used until 15.10.1934.

- Fred

Mikedc
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Re: Motorstandarten

Post by Mikedc » 24 Jan 2010 23:50

Brian wrote:
SS-Sturmführer. Hermann Böttcher SS# 456 - (SS-Stuf. - 20.04.1934.)
I think you made a typing-error here Brian, the Oktober 1934 DAL gives 459 as his SS-number.
And here some more info about this officer.
Born on 29-10-1903
Party-number is 12.086
He got promoted to SS-Obersturmführer on 9-11-1935


Greetings,
Mike

BB-WA
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Re: Motorstandarten

Post by BB-WA » 27 Jan 2010 08:06

Hi Mike

It was a big list I'm sure there could / will be others. Any corrections always welcome.

Typing error thanks for the SS# correction and Ostuf promotion date.
Hermann Böttcher SS# 459 - (Stuf 20.04.34, Ostuf 09.11.35)

Typing error again Knellesson is correct.
Martin Knellessen SS# 6 923

While on Knellessen I know you have a separate post on him but my question is to do with some information Fred supplied on his SS-Mo.Sta. postings
M.d.Führung Mo/II/25./Gruppe West: 11.1932
b.m.5.Mo-Stand./SS-Oberabschnitt West: 04.1934
F.Mo.III./5: [01.07.1935]
Fred what is meant by the b.m. (b.m.5.Mo-Stand.....)? - From the 1934 DAL I just read - F. 5. Mo.Sta.
And was 04.1934 his start date ?

Regards
Brian

freddiefro
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Re: Motorstandarten

Post by freddiefro » 27 Jan 2010 21:35

BB-WA wrote:what is meant by the b.m. (b.m.5.Mo-Stand.....)? - From the 1934 DAL I just read - F. 5. Mo.Sta. And was 04.1934 his start date ?
The assignment “b.m.5.Mo.Sta.” is the way it is written in the SS-Personalnefehl Nr.13 (dated 04.05.1934) showing the position he was holding when he was promoted SS-Sturmhauptführer on 20.04.1934. I don’t know if this is his exact start date, but 4-months earlier, he was still with Motorstaffel.25 (in Dec. 1933).

I assume “b.m.5.Mo.Sta.” is “beauftragt mit 5.Mo.Sta.” I’m not really sure if “b.m.” is the same as “b.m.F.” (beauftragt mit der Führung = charged with command of). Perhaps some other forum member can help.

- Fred

BB-WA
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Re: Motorstandarten

Post by BB-WA » 28 Jan 2010 15:29

Hi Fred

Thanks for the info.

I think you are right with the b.m. being "beauftragt mit der Führung (m.d.F.b.)" and he assumed full command at a later date. Thanks also for his earlier possible start date
I don’t know if this is his exact start date, but 4-months earlier, he was still with Motorstaffel.25 (in Dec. 1933).
Regards
Brian

Mikedc
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Re: Motorstandarten

Post by Mikedc » 28 Jan 2010 18:59

Brian wrote:
SS-Sturmhauptführer. Toni Weiß SS# 3 978 - (SS-Sthauptf. - 20.04.1933.)
His SS-number is not correct, what you wrote here is his NSDAP-number. His SS-number is 20.891 and he was promoted to SS-Sturmführer on 16-8-32. His promotiondate for SS-Sturmhauptführer is correct.


Mike

BB-WA
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Re: Motorstandarten

Post by BB-WA » 29 Jan 2010 08:36

Hi Mike

I think I might hire you as a proof reader. It was an early morning finnish putting it together from memory and I guess my eyes were getting tired. As I said before any corrections or additions more than welcome.

Toni Weiß SS# 20 891 - (Stuf 16.08.32, Ostuf skip, Shauptf 20.04.33, Stubaf 00.00.00?, Ostubaf 13.05.38)

Do you happen to know his Stubaf promotiom date?

Thanks again.
Brian

And a question on Toni Weiß for anyone. He was the Führer of SS-MoSta. 1 z.b.V. based in München.
What was the function of this Standarte z.b.V.. Maybe a special vehicle pool?
and
Was it before or after his appoinment (1934 DAL) as beim Stab SS-Motorstandarte 1. Or was it a special command attached directly to the Stab and the DAL entry means the same ting?

Thanks for any replies.
Brian

Phil Nix
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Re: Motorstandarten

Post by Phil Nix » 29 Jan 2010 12:53

Toni Weiss Sbf 13.9.1936 Beim Stab SS Abschnitt XIII 1938 Auf Eigenen Antrag entlassen 13.5.1938
Phil Nix

BB-WA
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Re: Motorstandarten

Post by BB-WA » 30 Jan 2010 07:13

Hi Phil
Toni Weiss Sbf 13.9.1936 Beim Stab SS Abschnitt XIII 1938 Auf Eigenen Antrag entlassen 13.5.1938
Thanks for the Stubaf date and last posting. I had him as promoted to Ostubaf on the same day (13.05.38) that you say he was released on own request. I'm not doubting that you are correct your resources are amazing. I cant remember where I got that date from but it seems strange that he was promoted and left the SS on the same day. Unless it was a parting gift for past services rendered. So did he actually make it to Ostubaf ?

When I originally put the list together one of the documents used for the different Mo.Sta. commands was one that you kindly posted at the beginning of this topic. From that list is where I got SS-Motorstandarte 1 z.b.V. with Toni Weiss as Führer. In the reply to Mike above I asked about this. Do you have any information on SS-Motorstandarte 1 z.b.V. and what its special duties were?

Regards

Brian
Data from the 1938 SS Dal and the enmry shows him as SS Obersturmbannführer but no date is given
Phil Nix

BB-WA
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Re: Motorstandarten

Post by BB-WA » 30 Jan 2010 11:02

Doing some cross referencing I've found another error in the original list. (Got to get in before Mike, just joking!). I have two spellings for his name but same SS#. Which is correct?

* SS-Motorstandarte 24 -
beim Stab
SS-Obersturmführer. Dr. Fritz Rawan (Kawan) SS# 58 533 - (Stuf 20.04.33, Ostuf 27.05.34, Ostuf 00.00.00?, [Hstuf 19.01.35]) -

Regards
Brian

BB-WA
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Re: Motorstandarten

Post by BB-WA » 31 Jan 2010 09:18

I must admit since posting this list with errors, (sorry late nights!!), apart from further additions I find in other posts and update in to it, I have never really gone back to this file and thoroughly double checked the contents.

As Mike has pointed out some errors I am now slowly going through the list and have found two more. It is time consuming but correct information is important, as we all know. All corrections or additional information is always welcome.

[1] - Another spelling error
26. SS-Motor-Standarte
I had SS-Sturmführer. Walter Sendowski SS# 31 000 - this should read Walter Sendowsky
But in cross referencing I find that -
SS# 31 000 Walter Sendowsky (1934 DAL - Stuf 01.12.33 - F. 26. Mo.Sta.). - Any possible further promotion dates welcome.
and
SS# 31 000 is also given to a Walter Hodam (Hstuf 09.11.43) at - http://www.dws-xip.pl/reich/biografie/numer31.html
We have seen multiple SS#'s in a topic that is already in this forum. Is this another case? Any help much appreciated.

[2] - This one I find as
SS# 33 455 Boy Petersen (1934 DAL - Stuf 20.04.34 - F. Mo. IV / 20)
and the same SS# as
SS# 33 455 Johann Petersen (Stubaf.u.Stubaf.d.R. 30.01.45) - at - http://www.dws-xip.pl/reich/biografie/numer33.html
So was Boy a nickname as we see for Josef (Sepp) or his preferred name? Any help much appreciated.

Regards
Brian

Phil Nix
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Re: Motorstandarten

Post by Phil Nix » 31 Jan 2010 12:39

BB-WA wrote:Doing some cross referencing I've found another error in the original list. (Got to get in before Mike, just joking!). I have two spellings for his name but same SS#. Which is correct?

* SS-Motorstandarte 24 -
beim Stab
SS-Obersturmführer. Dr. Fritz Rawan (Kawan) SS# 58 533 - (Stuf 20.04.33, Ostuf 27.05.34, Ostuf 00.00.00?, [Hstuf 19.01.35]) -

Regards
Brian
Dr Fritz Kawan born 25.1.1891 Usf 20.4.33 Osf 27.5.34 Hsf 19.1.35 There are no entries in later Dals

Mikedc
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Re: Motorstandarten

Post by Mikedc » 31 Jan 2010 13:07

Dr. Fritz Kawan
NSDAP-nr. 1.196.367

Walter Sendowsky
NSDAP-nr. 1.150.226

Boy Petersen
NSDAP-nr. 1.019.552
And yes, he's identical to Johann Petersen as their party- and SS-numbers are a match. Most likely Boy was a nickname or something like that.

Mike

Mikedc
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Re: Motorstandarten

Post by Mikedc » 01 Feb 2010 13:02

Brian wrote:
SS-Motorstandarte 4
beim Stab
SS-Sturmführer. August Klinge
** 1 / SS-Motorstandarte 4 -
SS-Sturmführer. Otto Warnecke
SS-Motorstandarte 5
SS-Obersturmführer. Gustav Bolton SS# 7 507 - (SS-Ostuf. - 09.11.1933.)
SS-DAL 1934 says:
August Klinge: 4. Mo.-Sta., so not with Staff as you wrote down
Otto Warnecke: F. Mo. II/4, so not Führer I as you wrote down
SS-DAL 1934 says:
Gustav Bolten: NSDAP-nr. 401.622. Promoted to SS-Sturmführer on 9-11-32


Greetings,
Mike
Last edited by Mikedc on 01 Feb 2010 18:27, edited 1 time in total.

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