Dr. Johannes Schmidt / SD

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mty
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Dr. Johannes Schmidt / SD

Post by mty » 06 Jan 2009 14:50

Hi!

Can someone tell a bit more about an obscure early-era SD fellow named Dr. Johannes Schmidt? I have seen only one photograph of him, in the vol I. of Heydrich biography by Max. He cannot be found from SS-DAL 1934 (at least I did not spot anyone with that name). Interestingly, some sources claim that he was the actual killer of General von Schleicher and his wife.

For example, this (http://www.bildungswerk-jks.de/Meine_Bilder_und_Dateien/2005.05B%20-%20Heydrich.pdf):
"Seinen alten SD-Kumpel Dr. Johannes Schmidt schickte Heydrich los, den ehemaligen Reichskanzler
Kurt von Schleicher in seinem Haus zu ermorden. Weil dessen Frau dazukam, musste sie ebenfalls
sterben."


- Mikko

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Re: Dr. Johannes Schmidt / SD

Post by mty » 12 Jan 2009 21:42

I still haven't been able to find anything about this man, except some references to the murder of von Schleicher. I think Max at least should know something, since he mentioned Schmidt and provided a portrait photo of him (in civilian suit, wearing an SS civ pin) in Heydrich biography vol I.

I am not sure if he was officer at all, at least none of the Dienstalterliste I was able to consult had entries of him. He seems to be a real mystery man - certainly he was well trusted by Heydrich still in June 1934 if he really was chosen to lead the assassination squad in Schleicher case!

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Re: Dr. Johannes Schmidt / SD

Post by Georges JEROME » 12 Jan 2009 23:21

Dr Johannes (Hans) Schmidt
11.03.1908 Gotha
1931 april Referendarexamen
1933 april promotion
1920 1923 member of Deutschnationalen Jugendbundes
1929 NS-Studentenbund und NSDAP
1931 Ic-Mann then PI-Mann in SS-Standarte 14 (Thüringen)
1933 end - august 1934 Leiter der Abteilung I (Information des SD-Oberabschnitt Ost (Berlin)
(datas from SS Personal files cited in the authorized Shlomo Aronson "Heydrich und die Frühgeschichte von Gestapo und SD")

listed in DAL 1/10/1944 Stab Abschnitt XXVII SS 36 232 Pg 178 151 20/4/39 Stubaf

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Re: Dr. Johannes Schmidt / SD

Post by Phil Nix » 14 Jan 2009 12:27

Party Nr 178151 SS Nr 36232 Stab SS Abschnitt XXVII 1938 Usf 1.12.33 Osf 1.5.34 Hsf 20.4.37 Sbf 20.4.39
Phil Nix

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Re: Dr. Johannes Schmidt / SD

Post by mty » 14 Jan 2009 14:35

Thanks a lot, Georges & Phil! :)
Have you ever come across other photos of him than the one used by Max (presumably from his SSO file)?

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Re: Dr. Johannes Schmidt / SD

Post by Phil Nix » 16 Jan 2009 12:16

quote="mty"]Thanks a lot, Georges & Phil! :)
Have you ever come across other photos of him than the one used by Max (presumably from his SSO file)?[/quote]
Sorry no
Phil Nix

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Re: Dr. Johannes Schmidt / SD

Post by Andrew J. Saxby » 11 Jan 2012 02:12

I checked the worldcat for his doctoral thesis. I reckon that's the one: [http://www.worldcat.org/title/begriff-der-gewalt-nach-der-rechtsprechung-des-deutschen-reichsgerichts-und-des-osterreichischen-obersten-gerichtshofes-unter-berucksichtigung-des-entwurfes-zu-einem-allgemeinen-deutschen-strafgesetzbuch/oclc/44842145&referer=brief_results]! :wink:

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Re: Dr. Johannes Schmidt / SD

Post by Mikedc » 11 Jan 2012 22:16

Hello Mikko,
He's mentioned in the 1934 SS-DAL.
908 | Schmidt Hans | S-D RF-SS | 178151 | 36232 | 1.12.33 | 1.5.34

I also have found the following somewhere on the internet.
The study was some kind of thesis (a master or magister paper, I presume) on the Schleicher murder, trying to verify/disprove the claim by a former Heydrich-collaborator named Orbs that Schleicher was shot by an SD-man named Johannes Schmidt as the attempt to arrest Schleicher on behalf of a certain Hermann Behrends went awry when Schmidt suffered a panick attack. Dr. Johannes Schmidt is not commonly* mentioned in connection with the Schleicher murder but I think it is entirely possible that either Heydrich or Behrends entrusted him with that task. Interestingly, Schmidt was not promoted in the aftermath of the Blood Purge (he received his Hstuf. promotion only in 1937!) nor was able to climb to the highest ladder of later RSHA organization, remaining somewhat of a shadowy figure. Perhaps he fell out of favor for some reason. Max Williams mentioned him as one of the earliest SD colleagues of Heydrich, already back in Munich. According to the study on Schmidt I read he left the Oberabschnitt Ost in September 1934 to complete his education at a Thuringian State Court in Gotha, later being transferred to Weimar where he became the right-hand man of Walter Ortlepp and Chief of the police-department in the Ministry for the Interior. After the war he was taken into an US-Internment Camp and released in 1949. He wriggled out of prosecution arguing that he did not actively enter the SS but instead was attached to it automatically, being an aspirant to the state service. However the study contains some documents proving that Schmidt was already involved in national-socialist news gathering activities in Thuringia in 1931, even though he was no yet member of the SS then.

Greetings, Mike

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Re: Dr. Johannes Schmidt / SD

Post by Andrew J. Saxby » 12 Jan 2012 15:19

I googled "Johannes Schmidt" + "Kurt von Schleicher" : There are a few interesting hits that I have yet to work through:

* http://www.google.co.uk/#sclient=psy-ab ... 24&bih=673

Could this
* http://www.amazon.de/SD-Mann-Johannes-S ... 3828828728]

be the study on the murder of Schleicher you mentioned?

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Re: Dr. Johannes Schmidt / SD

Post by mty » 19 Jan 2012 16:06

Amazing! I think this is a book based on the dissertation/thesis of this same person which I was unable to find since his name is misspelled in almost all instances as "Roth" instead of "Orth" :lol:. For example in German Wikipedia, many articles dealing with the persons associated with the Blood Purge are sourced from his studies like this:
Roth: Der Sicherheitsdienst des SS und der 30. Juni 1934, S. 97.


I ordered the book and after reading it, I can post some commentary and interesting details here. Thanks for posting the information about it!

- Mikko

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Re: Dr. Johannes Schmidt / SD

Post by Andrew J. Saxby » 22 Jan 2012 08:28

There are some mug shots of SS men on the Website of the Munich Institute of History, :

[http://www.ifz-muenchen.de/archiv/zsa/ZS_A_0034.pdf] (you need to scroll down to page 120 to find the pictures of Schmidt)

Do those pictures exist somewhere in better quality?

So long
Andrew

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Re: Dr. Johannes Schmidt / SD

Post by mty » 22 Jan 2012 21:59

Many thanks for the link! :)

Fascinating material indeed. This collection of Aronson is most probably the one he compiled during his research work for studies on early SD and Bavarian Political Police. Unfortunately most of the documents in the collection are single pages from document groupings but nevertheless some of those are real diamonds such as self-written biographies (Lebenslauf) of Pohl and Rudolf Diels!

Here are the photos of Schmidt from the document, I decided to attach them since there are no proper photos of Schmidt to be found on this forum and he is far more important personality than it was previously thought. Source for the photos: IDZ (http://www.ifz-muenchen.de/archiv/zsa/ZS_A_0034.pdf). There was also a third photo, a full body shot but I decided to leave it out in order to save attachment space.

Edit: I don't know if there are any better quality copies available but I think that in the survived archives of RuSHA and/or Personalhauptamt there should be at least photocopies of these. I think these were part of his SSO file which Aronson used. Interestingly, there were instructions for two face photographs to be provided, one directly facing the camera and another one showing the exact profile. In many cases it seems that these rules were not observed as strictly as can be thought...
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Re: Dr. Johannes Schmidt / SD

Post by Andrew J. Saxby » 26 Jan 2012 06:44

Thank's for uploading those pictures. I took the liberty of downloading them for my collection.

As you mentioned that you purchased the new book on Schmidt - are there any further pictures of him in there that you could post here?

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Re: Dr. Johannes Schmidt / SD

Post by mty » 26 Jan 2012 13:58

Unfortunately there are no photos in the book except the one in the cover (the frontal shot of Schmidt). Otherwise the book is excellent read and contains a wealth of new information about the grassroots level operations of the Röhm purge. For example many of the murder cases in Berlin are addressed and the author has always attempted to trace the exact individuals behind the case.

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