Kurt Daluege

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coburg22
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Re: Kurt Daluege

Post by coburg22 » 16 Jul 2012 16:21

Thanks guys for your answers, that was very informative. I look forward to the translation Dieter as time permits.

Best,

James

trespasser07
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Re: Kurt Daluege

Post by trespasser07 » 17 Jul 2012 13:23

The work on Daluege by Cadle is something I look forward to reading with great interest :)
"We believe in what we do!" - written in Friedrich Rainer's Guestbook by Odilo Globocnik in April 1943.

steve248
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Re: Kurt Daluege

Post by steve248 » 18 Jul 2012 07:33

A couple of points:

1. The Detention Card mentioned looks like the same document used by the British. The illustration used here is the top third of an A4 size page that records physical description from teeth to toes; the reverse lists the appointments and service locations given by the prisoner;

2. For British and Americans, Daluege was carrying a lot of weight. 1.89m tall comes out at 6 feet 2-3 inches. 104 kgs comes out at 229 lbs, or 16 stone. Two inches more me, 4 stones/56 lbs/25kgs. Little wonder he had a heart attack and I am "normal".

3. There is a reasonable amount of information about Daluege in Richard Breitman "Official Secret" detailing his role the program of killing Jews in the early months of the Russian campaign. This book in widely available in hardback and paperback versions.

J. Duncan
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Re: Kurt Daluege

Post by J. Duncan » 18 Jul 2012 10:07

I have not read the Breitman book mentioned above so thanks for the recommendation. He has another good book titled "U.S. Intelligence and the Nazis" which he edited in which various authors disclose some really interesting information on figures such as Otto Ohlendorff and Eugen Dollmann. I'll be sure to find out more about Daluege in "Official Secrets: What the Nazis Planned, What the British and Americans Knew". Breitman also wrote a good but often overlooked book on Himmler ("Architect of Genocide: Himmler and the Final Solution").

trespasser07
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Re: Kurt Daluege

Post by trespasser07 » 18 Jul 2012 10:51

I think in another post Mark C. Yerger mentioned someone is working on a Daluege biography, has anyone any more on this? I look forward to this greatly (hopefully the future will bring a Berger, Eicke or Jeckeln one too) :) . I feel that even as head of the Ordnungspolizei he is often overlooked by people who know more about Heydrich and Kaltenbrunner etc. Had he been at the IMT people would know more about him.
"We believe in what we do!" - written in Friedrich Rainer's Guestbook by Odilo Globocnik in April 1943.

steve248
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Re: Kurt Daluege

Post by steve248 » 18 Jul 2012 11:21

Indeed. For those who know me I am mentioned in Breitman's Official Secret and more in US Intelligence.....

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Shadowman
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Re: Kurt Daluege

Post by Shadowman » 19 Jul 2012 20:44

trespasser07 wrote:It was brought on by syphilis inherited by from his father. I'm not sure if this affected him during his imprisonment but he suffered two heart attacks one in 1936 and one in 1942/43.
Thanks for providing the correct information. I got it wrong.

Shadowman
Best regards,

Shadowman

trespasser07
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Re: Kurt Daluege

Post by trespasser07 » 31 Aug 2012 14:11

Dieter Zinke wrote: In der SS kursieren Gerüchte, das Spätstadium einer mutmaßlich nicht ausbehandelten Syphilis habe ihn impotent und geistig labil gemacht. Diese Gerüchte wachsen, als sich der kinderlose Daluege 1937 ärztlich für unfruchtbar erklären lässt, damit seine Frau einen Pflegesohn annehmen kann. Danach bringt Käthe Daluege drei eigene Kinder zur Welt, worauf das Gerede über die Impotenz verstummt. Aber die Meinung, Dalueges geistige Fähigkeiten seien durch seine Krankheit beeinträchtigt, bleibt immer noch weit verbreitet. (Cadle, S. 72).
Es wird auch eine Kausalität zum Herzinfarkt gemutmaßt. Unabhängig davon, dass diese Diagnose damals am Lebenden keinesfalls gesichert werden konnte, würde ein dies bahnender generalisierter entzündlicher Gefäßwandprozess in Herznähe bei einer latenten Spätsyphilis eigentlich nur im Rahmen eines die Lebenserwartung erheblich begrenzenden Multiorganbefalles zu erwarten sein. In diesem Fall aber würde die eindeutig ernste Prognose naturgemäß sofortige absolute Arbeitsunfähigkeit und dauernde Invalidisierung bedeuten. Die tatsächliche weitere Entwicklung spricht, wie gezeigt wird, eine andere Sprache
.
Dieter Z.

Google Translation friends ;):


The SS has had speculation the late stage of syphilis is not suspectedly cured (satis curata) had made him impotent and mentally unbalanced. These rumors are growing, as the childless Daluege 1937 can be declared medically infertile, so his wife can have one foster son. Then bring Käthe Daluege three own children into the world, silent on what this talk about impotence. But the opinion, Daluege mental abilities are impaired by his illness, there is still widespread. (Cadle, p 72).
It is conjectured also a causality to a heart attack. Regardless that this diagnosis at that time on the living not been secured, a 'ground-forming generalized inflammatory vascular process near the heart with a latent syphilis would be expected to actually just part of a life expectancy significantly limiting multiorgan infestation. But in this case are clearly serious prognosis would naturally mean immediate absolute incapacity and permanent disability. Influencing developments speaks, as shown, a different language.
"We believe in what we do!" - written in Friedrich Rainer's Guestbook by Odilo Globocnik in April 1943.

ccadle57
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Re: Kurt Daluege

Post by ccadle57 » 04 Jan 2013 20:04

Re Daluege's physical condition at his execution: according to one very believable source (his chief prosecutor, Drabek), Daluege attempted to commit suicide by cutting his wrists with a sherd of broken pottery shortly before his execution.

Re the seriousness of Daluege's heart condition: I for one do not believe Daluege was pushed out of active service mainly because of his illness. Himmler, I would argue, never wanted Daluege in such a high position in the SS hierarchy, and used the second heart infarction as an excuse to maneuver him out. The increasingly harsh, and on Daluege's side bitter, tone of the correspondence between the two men as Daluege realizes that the leave he has agreed to take will in fact be permanent accords with this theory.

That's my two cents' worth!

Caron Cadle

Georges JEROME
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Re: Kurt Daluege

Post by Georges JEROME » 04 Jan 2013 22:54

Dear Caron,
Glad to read you here.
Your thesis and your contribution in "Die Braune Elite II" are the reference.

Georges

trespasser07
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Re: Kurt Daluege

Post by trespasser07 » 05 Jan 2013 13:32

Thank you Caron!

I would very much like to read your work on Daluege if it is ever published. :)

Regards.
"We believe in what we do!" - written in Friedrich Rainer's Guestbook by Odilo Globocnik in April 1943.

JoeW
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Re: Kurt Daluege

Post by JoeW » 06 Jan 2013 19:12

ccadle57 wrote:Re Daluege's physical condition at his execution: according to one very believable source (his chief prosecutor, Drabek), Daluege attempted to commit suicide by cutting his wrists with a sherd of broken pottery shortly before his execution.

Re the seriousness of Daluege's heart condition: I for one do not believe Daluege was pushed out of active service mainly because of his illness. Himmler, I would argue, never wanted Daluege in such a high position in the SS hierarchy, and used the second heart infarction as an excuse to maneuver him out. The increasingly harsh, and on Daluege's side bitter, tone of the correspondence between the two men as Daluege realizes that the leave he has agreed to take will in fact be permanent accords with this theory.

That's my two cents' worth!

Caron Cadle
I found some early staff correspondence between the two camps to be argumentative over a minute point as the design of the police eagle insignia. Yet just after Himmler's installation as Chef d. Deutschen Polizei in June 1936, Daluege adopted a very conciliatory, almost obsequious, tone in his dedication of a copy of his book on crime in Germany that he presented to Himmler.

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mty
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Re: Kurt Daluege

Post by mty » 07 Jan 2013 11:54

Greetings to Caron, very nice to see professional scholars on this forum!

I try to get a copy of your Daluege biography, he for sure is an interesting character and provides an excellent example of an independent, early SS leader clearly detached from Himmler. If I may ask, did you upon your research come across any material about Othmar Toifl (sometimes also spelled as "Ottmar" or "Toifel") or Daluege's relations with him? Some sources indicate that there was icy correspondence about his last moments between Daluege and Himmler after Toifl's killing as part of the "Röhm purge".

trespasser07
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Re: Kurt Daluege

Post by trespasser07 » 13 Jun 2013 22:32

On 8th May 1945, Daluege was arrested by British troops in Lübeck and was interned at Nuremberg until September 1946, when he was extradited to Czechoslovakia. The United States had originally considered including Daluege in the group of Nazi defendants before the IMT. Ironically, given the lack of evidence regarding him and the Uniformed Police avaliable to the Allies at the times, He may have recieved a lesser sentence had he been tried at Nuremberg. His belief in Hitler remained unshaken. He appeared perplexed when the court refused to accept a claim of innocence based on his insistance that he'd only followed Hitler's order. During the trial Daluege, who was wholly unrepentant to the end, claimed that he had a clear conscience and whilst ignoring his crimes, declared "I am beloved by three million policemen". On October 15th, hoping it would work in his favour and spare his life, he attempted to feign mental illness, although no one believed him. Whilst awaiting his execution a week later, he unsuccessfully tried to commit suicide in his prison cell.

Regards
"We believe in what we do!" - written in Friedrich Rainer's Guestbook by Odilo Globocnik in April 1943.

J. Duncan
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Re: Kurt Daluege

Post by J. Duncan » 13 Jun 2013 23:47

Many have said (see above) that Daluege tried to slash his wrists but if that were so, he must not have cut very deep or was prevented from doing so while trying. There are photos of his execution in various stages of operation and his wrists do not appear to be bandaged. He actually looks quite healthy (a bit underweight perhaps) pale, dazed, and drained from imprisonment.
You can see these images on google (I do not want to post photo here because these from google are against forum rules as they are unsourced photos).

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