RSHA - Gruppe VI F

[E-IV]

Hi Brian,

I still owe you an answer on the Referat VI F 3:
One source (a list of names compiled by the belgian secret service, available on the internet of the Gegesoma as "ListeAllemdsRecherches_AA1312.pdf") states with unusual detail: Zapp: Prof. Ang.: membre de la Sicherheitspolizei à Dresden – Referat VI F 3 – Chef de l’école de micro-photographie (Zapp, Prof.: member of the Sicherheitspolizei in Dresden - Referat VI F 3 - Chef of the School for Micro-Photography)
The second source is the CV of Ebben in which he writes "Seit Mai 1943 bin ich Baumzüchter im R.S.H.A. VI-F-3. Berlin". I think the way he is putting it clearly indicates that he served in VI F 3 in his capacity as tree grower.
The third source is the January 1945 list Peter provided where VI F 3 is mentioned as "Chemical and Mechanical Sabotage" under Stubaf. Rudolf Lassig (would be great if Peter could provide the origin of the list and its german designations).
So we have now three fields of action for VI F 3 that apparently are completely different from one another.
Regards
E-IV

[BB-WA]

Hi E-IV and Peter
Lets see if we can get the VI F Leiters right first.

E-IV wrote
I have several names for its commanders:
SS-Ostubaf. Walter Rauff (19.06.1906 in Köthen, Anhalt – 14.05.1984 in Santiago de Chile),
(Hans) Hermann Bielstein
SS-Stubaf. Hermann Dörner (Jörner?)
SS-Stubaf. Rudolf Lassig

Peter wrote
[Techincal Support] Sturmbannführer RudolfLassig (acting)
H (Havel Institute) Radio Sturmbannführer Peter Siepen
3 Chemical and Mechanical Sabotage Sturmbannführer Rudolf Lassig
4 Forgeries, Photography Sturmbannführer Bernhard Krüger
5 Technical Means of Assistance Hauptsturmführer Erich Weideling
6 Instruction Sturmbannführer Dr. Heinrich Fesel
P Personnel, Administration Hauptsturmführer Kurt Nötenberg
Hauptsturmführer Markus Faulhaber

E-IV and Peter
Both of you mention Rudolf Lassig as Leiter or in Peters case as (acting - i.V. - zug Leiter VI F 3). Was this between Hermann Dörner until Wilhelm Boening became Leiter and Lassig was the i.V. ??
Or
Was Lassig i.V. because of Boening's other commitments in AmtMil ??

E-IV - SEE - SS-Hauptsturmführer und KR Wilhelm Bielstein
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... =Bielstein
Even though the title of the above topic is about a Wilhelm Bielstein (maybe he had more than one christian name?) read through and you will find its about Hermann Bielstein.
Hermann Bielstein doesn't belong on your list. Shanes last reply to this post confirms it. Bielstein was after the formation of the RSHA (27.09.1939) the Leiter of (Amt / Gruppe) VI F - West, as you say, but this office was one of several at the time (Amt / Gruppe VI C, D,E,F and G) that were involved in foreign intelligence not technical help. Each office covered a specific geographic area.

** Amt / Gruppe B - Nachtrichtenubermiturg und Nachtrichten Technische Einsatz Ausland - (Later re-designated as Gruppe VI F, Amt VI, RSHA in the 01.01.1941 reorganization list) - later became the future Gruppe VI F in a reorganization of the RSHA.

So I now have as Leiter's of Amt / Gruppe B / later Gruppe VI F. Any corrections or additions welcome. Especially with correct start / finish dates.
* (Amt / Gruppe) B - Nachtrichtenubermiturg und Nachtrichten Technische Einsatz Ausland - (Later re-designated as Gruppe VI F, Amt VI, RSHA in the 01.01.1941 reorganization list) - i.e. Heydrich -
(27.09.1939.) - 00.00.1941. - SS-Sturmbannführer. Alfred Naujocks SS# 26 240 - (Ustuf 24.01.35, Ostuf 20.04.36, Hstuf 12.09.37, Stubaf 00.00.00, Ostubaf 00.00.00, [Staf 00.00.00], demoted [Stubaf?]) - Trans. to Holland in 1941 -
* Gruppe VI F: Technische Hilfsmittel für den Nachrichtendienst im Ausland (mit 7 Referaten as per 01.01.1941 list) -
(00.03.1941.) 01.03.1942. - 00.06.1942. - SS-Obersturmbannführer. "Walter" Hermann Julius Rauff SS# 290 947 - (Lt.z.See 1926, Oblt.z.See. 1930, KäpLt.z.See. 1935, first officer rank Hstuf 11.09.38, Stubaf 20.04.39, KorvKäp.d.R. 00.00.41, Ostubaf 30.01.41, [Staf 21.06.44]) - Trans.as Leiter, SD-Einsatzkommando Tunis -
* Gruppe VI F: Technische Hilfsmittel für den Auslandsnachrichtendienst im Ausland (mit 6 Referaten as per 01.10.1943 list) - i.e. Kaltenbrunner -
00.06.1942. - (00.00.1944.) - SS-Sturmbannführer. Hermann Dörner SS# 47 639 - (Ustuf 13.09.36, Ostuf 20.04.37, Hstuf 00.00.00, Stubaf 20.04.41, Hstuf.d.R. 00.00.00, [Ostubaf 09.11.43], Ostubaf.d.R. ) - Trans. as ????
15.12.1944. - 00.00.1945. - SS-Sturmbannführer. u. Oberstleutnant.d.R. Wilhelm Boening SS# 346 642 - (Hstuf 00.00.00, [Stubaf 01.09.43], Oberstlt.d.R. 00.00.00) - zug. 00.07.1944. - 00.00.0000, Leiter, Amt Mil E & Amt Mil F, AmtMil, Amt VI, RSHA. -

BTW
Naujocks was involved in a corruption affair in Holland and demoted and dismissed from the SD as SS-Staf?. But I have differing accounts. Can anyone give me his promotion / demotion / and re-promotion ranks and dates. Apparently he made it back to SS-Stubaf by 1944?

Regards
Brian

[E-IV]

Brian,
SS-Sturmbannführer Rudolf Lassig appears with the addition "m.d.F.b." in the Nürnberg Dokument ND 185-L dated 01.01.1941 (= Geschäftsverteilungsplan des Reichssicherheitshauptamtes, Stand: 01.01.1941). I guess "acting" would be an acceptable translation for that. Could be that he had that function due to the other commitments of Wilhelm Boening, but that is only a guess. It would be interesting to know, if Lassig was already "acting" during the time VI F was headed by Hermann Dörner.
I also have (Hans) Hermann Bielstein referred to in an organization plan, Bundesarchiv file BA ZR 275 (source: footnote of Gerd Simon in: "V-Mann-Schulung", 28.02.1945)

[E-IV]

Brian,
in the link on (Hans) Hermann Bielstein it says "With the formation of the RSHA on September 27, 1939, he headed Gruppe VI.F, which covered Western Europe. Holding that post until May 1940 ..." However VI F was not yet established at that time and according to your information SS-Sturmbannführer Alfred Naujocks was in charge of its antecessor Amt / Gruppe B from 27.09.1939 to 1941. It seems to me that the info in the Bielstein link is not accurate as VI F did certainly not exist in 1939/40. As for its responsible during that timespan, I do not know.
Regards, E-IV

[BB-WA]

Hi E-VI

Great info on Rudolf Lassig as (m.d.F.b.), another piece in the puzzle. As I said it would be great to get the VI F department heads right first, then work on the Referenten next.

One thing I would say is, that when these names appear on various lists they may have been previously appointed. All dates in I have in (_) need clarification as I cant find the exact or get a conflicting date. Any help from anyone on these would be appreciated.

by E-IV
It seems to me that the info in the Bielstein link is not accurate as VI F did certainly not exist in 1939/40. As for its responsible during that timespan, I do not know.
Regards, E-IV

by Shane A Beaver
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic. ... =Bielstein
............With the formation of the RSHA on September 27, 1939, he [Bielstein] headed Gruppe VI.F (later re-designated as Referat VI.B), which covered Western Europe. Holding that post until May 1940, he then moved to the staff of the Chef der SIPO/SD beim Militarbefehlshaber "Belgien und Nordfrankreich". Remaining there until September 1940, he joined the Waffen-SS as a reserve NCO.................

Please re-read the link and my reply, I believe the info is correct. VI F certainly did exist in 1939/40 in the RSHA's formative stage from the SD-Hauptamt but its function was different to the later VI F after the RSHA's reorganization.
It was not only Amt VI but the whole RSHA was reorganized. Many subsections within the various Ämter were either re-named, expanded, amalgamated or removed to another Amt - eg the formation of Amt VII under Franz Six.

I hope tiis explains what I'm trying to say.

RSHA 27.10.1939 / 1940 - Heydrich
Amt VI - Ausland (SD)
Amt VI A - Allgemeine Ausgeben
Amt VI B - Nachtrichtenubermiturg und Nachtrichten Technische Einsatz Ausland * Later became Gruppe VI F, Amt VI, RSHA
(27.09.1939.) - (00.12.1939.) (00.00.1941.) - Alfred Naujocks SS# 26 240 -
Amt VI C - Ost - Rußland, Randstaaten, Ferner Osten
Amt VI D - Südost
Amt VI E - Süd
Amt VI F - West * Later almalgamated into Gruppe VI B, Amt VI, RSHA
00.05.1940. - 00.00.0000. - ????
27.09.1939. - 00.05.1940. - Hermann Bielstein SS# 241 888 -
Amt VI G - Nordwest
Amt VI H - Erkundung, Weltangschaulicher Gegner Ausland


RSHA in the 01.01.1941 reorganization list - Heydrich
Amt VI - Ausland (SD)
Gruppe VI A: Allgemeine auslands- uns nachrichtendienstliche Aufgaben (mit 7 Referaten)
Gruppe VI B: Deutsch-Italienisches Einflussgebiet in Europa, Afrika und im Nahen Osten (mit 10 Referaten)
Gruppe VI C: Russisch-Japanisches Einflussgebiet Osten (mit 11 Referaten)
Gruppe VI D: Englisch-Amerikanisches Einflussgebiet Westen (mit 9 Referaten)
Gruppe VI E: Erkundung weltanschaulicher Gegner im Ausland (mit 6 Referaten)
Gruppe VI F: Technische Hilfsmittel für den Nachrichtendienst im Ausland (mit 7 Referaten)
- (00.06.1942.) - (00.00.1944.) - Hermann Dörner SS# SS# 47 639 -
- (00.03.1941.) (01.03.1942.) - 00.06.1942. - Walther Rauff SS# 290 947 -
- 01.01.1941. - (00.00.0000.) - Rudolf Lassig SS# 107 190 - (m.d.F.b.) - Did he progress from (m.d.F.b.) to Leiter until Rauff?
- 00.00.0000. - (00.12.1940.) (00.00.1941.) - Alfred Naujocks SS# 26 240 -

** Gruppe VI Wi: Einbau der Wirtschaft in den AND (selbständiges Referat) - also known as RSHA Sonderreferate VI Wi in 1941. This office was formed in late 1941 and is not on the original 01.01.1941 list.


RSHA in the 01.10.1943 reorganization list - Kaltenbrunner
Amt VI - Auslandsnachrichtendienst (Ausland SD)
Gruppe VI F: Technische Hilfsmittel für den Auslandsnachrichtendienst im Ausland (mit 6 Referaten) - According to this list VI F retained its office designation but lost one of its Referate -
- (Peters January 1945, list - Rudolf Lassig SS# 107 190 - (acting?) - as per Peters (Polizei51) post -
- 15.12.1944. - 00.00.1945. - Wilhelm Boening SS# 346 642 -
- (00.06.1942.) - (00.00.1944.) - Hermann Dörner SS# SS# 47 639 -

Now we come to Peters (Polizei51) list from January 1945 -

[Techincal Support] Sturmbannführer RudolfLassig (acting)
H (Havel Institute) Radio Sturmbannführer Peter Siepen
3 Chemical and Mechanical Sabotage Sturmbannführer Rudolf Lassig
4 Forgeries, Photography Sturmbannführer Bernhard Krüger
5 Technical Means of Assistance Hauptsturmführer Erich Weideling
6 Instruction Sturmbannführer Dr. Heinrich Fesel
P Personnel, Administration Hauptsturmführer Kurt Nötenberg
Hauptsturmführer Markus Faulhaber

[Techincal Support] in brackets - Sturmbannführer Rudolf Lassig (acting) - I'm only guessing here, does this mean he was - i.V. Amt VI F for Boening ? - zug. Leiter, Gruppe VI F 3. - .
Peter any additional info welcome

Regards
Brian

[Polizei51]

Hello E-IV and Brian,

The forerunner of Amt VI F, in February 1940 of the RSHA was Amt I G “Technische Angelegenheiten “ (Nachrichtenenverbindungen und Kraftfahrwesen), headed by Stubaf Walter Rauff as Gruppenleiter.
With the following sub-groups

I G 1 Funk – at the moment unoccupied
I G 2 Fernschreiber & Fernsprechenwesen — Stubaf. Polizierat Kurt Walter
I G 3 Kraftfahrwesen

• 1) der Geheim Staatspolizei — Hstuf. Hptm.d.SchP. Friedrich Pradel
  2) des SD — Ostuf. Wilhelm Gast

I G 4 Waffenwesen — at the moment unoccupied.
I G 5 Flugwesen — Stubaf. Maj.d.SchP. Georg Leopold

I hope this helps you out.

Peter

[BB-WA]

Hi Peter

Thanks for the reply.

I have very similar info for 1939 / 1940, to your office structure with small differences.
1 G 3 - Kraftfahrwesen -
?????? - No Leiter noted -
I G 3a - der Geheimen Staatspolizei - SS-Hauptsturmführer. u. Hauptmann.d.SchuPo. Friedrich Pradel SS# 290 460 -
I G 3b - des SD - SS-Obersturmführer. Wilhelm Gast -
I G 3c - (??Kripo??) - my emphasis - ??? -
A minor point but I can't find my source for this difference (it's frustrating) but rest of the names and office titles are the same. And not of interest to this topic.

Re-designated as -
Gruppe I G, Amt I - Technische Angelegenheitern - 1939 - 1940, list
Gruppe II D, Amt II - Technische Angelegenheiten - 01.01.1941, list
Gruppe II C, Amt II - Technische Angelegenheiten - 01.10.1943, list - Personnel in "II C 1 & II C 2" were transferred on 01.09.1944, into the newly formed "Amt N - Nachrichtenvebindungen" (aka Amt VIII, RSHA) under Amtschef, SS-Staf. Sansoni. -

Gruppe I & II were always of an administrative and organizational nature for the whole of the RSHA. I think "Gruppe I G - Technische Angelegenheitern" and its later Gruppe re-designations, was the Technical Dept. for only the supply of equipment and services to the various Ämter of the RSHA (Communications [Main exchange], Transport [Supply of cars, motorcycles and trucks], Weapons [Armoury], Flight arrangements). It had no direct connection to Amt VI (Ausland SD) apart from possibly organizing general communcations and motorised / air transportation requirements etc. The only thing Technische Angelegenheiten developed I know of was a collaberation in Ca. 1941, between Rauff and mostly Pradel in developing the mobile gas vans used by the Einsatzgruppen.


I still think VI B was the forerunner of VI F as VI F's technical requirements were entirely different and specialized for espionage and supporting agents abroad rather than general requirements supplied by Gruppe I G, Amt I.
VI B Nachtrichtenubermiturg und Nachtrichten Technische Einsatz Ausland - 1939 / 1940, list - re-named and re-designatated as
VI F Technische Hilfsmittel - 01.01.1941, list

According to http://www.ghwk.de/engl/history-print.htm
In 1937, the SD established a secret institute for research about Eastern Europe at lake Grosser Wannsee. This “Wannsee Institute” produced intelligence reports on the Soviet Union and Eastern European countries.
In 1942, the SD set up a radio headquarters (the “Havel Institute”), which directed spy and sabotage actions against the Soviet Union (“Operation Zeppelin”)

If this site is correct it shows that even pre 1939, in the SD-Hauptamt's years (i.e. Zentralabteilung III - Ausland - 27.09.1939, Amt VI, RSHA) already had its own technical department(s) and presumably these carried through to the formation of the RSHA. I cannot see how Gruppe I G - Technische Angelegenheitern, could be the forerunner in this repect.

Maybe some other of our knowledgeable forum members could clarify this. Did the Ausland SD have its own technical department from 27.09.1939, and was it under Amt VI B initially.

Regards
Brian

[E-IV]

Hi,
I agree with Brian, that "Gruppe I G - Technische Angelegenheiten" could not have been the forerunner of the latter VI F. Its organization clearly shows the conventional technical support any administration would need.
As for SS-Sturmbannführer Rudolf Lassig, I do not know if he progressed to Leiter before Rauff became Gruppenleiter of VI F.
What puzzles me are the dates of the early years. If I did read correctly, we have SS-Sturmbannführer Alfred Naujocks (00.12.1940 - 00.00.1941) according to the list dated 27.09.1939.
My question is: Who was his predecessor and 2nd are we just assuming Naujocks held this position until 1941, because Rudolf Lassig was "m.d.F.b." in January 1941 at the latest? (acc. to the "Geschäftsverteilungsplan des RSHA, Stand 01.01.1941").
Regards, E-IV

[BB-WA]

Hi E-IV

The Naujocks info comes from a hand written list supplied by Phil Nix quite a long time ago on the forum. His document is dated 01.02.1940. - 25.07.1940. It doesn't mention any start or end dates in most cases, but looking at my different files, most RSHA personnel were already appointed prior to 01.02.1940 and were still there at the first RSHA office re-organization. From there on there was some re-shuffling of personnel to other posts.

In answer to your Naujocks date query that I wrote above. They are in brackets because I have never found the correct start or end dates. Anything in (_)'s I still need clarification on.
I also "stuffed up" and was also looking at two different RSHA office structures, and confused myself trying to answer, sorry it happens.

I wrote.
(27.09.1939.) - (00.12.1939.) (00.00.1941.) - Alfred Naujocks SS# 26 240 -

I made a "typo" it should read.
(27.09.1939.) - (00.12.1940.) (00.00.1941.) - These were a possible start and both possible end dates.
So if Lassig was (m.d.F.b.) on the 01.01.1941 list, Naujocks end date maybe late 1940, in the previous office structure before Lassig was m.d.F.b.

I don't know who, or if, Naujocks had a predecessor in Amt VI B, RSHA. But he was certainly involved in a leading role in some sensitive covert operations to do with Amt VI B during the 1940's - i.e. Microphone bugging, recording of conversations and surveillance of "Salon Kitty - aka Pension Schroeder" and the early, but unsuccessful, attempts at forging British currency. He was not a technician as such but oversaw these operations, this seems to confirm Phil's list that he was the Leiter, Amt VI B and its different departments.

As I said before - lets see if we can get the Leiter's of Amt VI B / re-named VI F, right first. Then work on the Referaten / Abteilungen attached to it.

BTW I have two different start dates in VI F, for Rauff - (00.03.1941.) or (01.03.1942), do you know which is correct? He definitely left in June 1942 as Leiter, SD-Einsatzkommando Tunis.

Regards Brian

[E-IV]

Hi Brian,
unfortunately I do not have new information I could add on the VI F leaders and its predecessors.
However just recently a one page article appeared in the german magazine "Der Spiegel", no. 39/2011 on Walter Rauff and his post-war activities for the BND. The article says that a bulk of 900 pages on him will soon be undisclosed and available to historical research at the Bundesarchiv in Koblenz. It seems that the documents deal almost exclusively, if not entirely, with his BND activities. There is also a nice photo (credits: DDP images / AP / Süddeutscher Verlag) of his capture in Italy 1945, which I haven't seen before. One can clearly see his Afrika cuffband.
Regards, E-IV

[BB-WA]

Hi E-VI
The photo of Rauff is already on this forum, and in better quality. It was taken during the German surrender to US forces in Italy in 1945, as you say. Use the search function for Rauff. As far as VI-F is concerned the photo has no relevance.

I did have a question on Rauff as to when he became Leiter VI-F, Amt IV in my qestion above.

BTW I have two different start dates as Leiter, VI F, for Rauff - (00.03.1941.) or (01.03.1942), do you know which is correct? He definitely left in June 1942 as Leiter, SD-Einsatzkommando Tunis.

The forum search function and the internet give conflicting year's of his appointment (1941 / 1942). Can anyone help on the correct year.

Any replies welcome.

Regards
Brian

[Mikedc]

SS-Hauptsturmführer Markus Faulhaber

Are you sure this is Markus Faulhaber??
The Markus that I've have was a Waffen-SS officer and therefor I think it has to be Josef Faulhaber.

Greetings, Mike

[steve248]

The Faulhaber with RSHA VI F3 (under Lassig) was SS-Ostuf Josef (Sepp) Faulhaber.
Took up the position on 1 April 1944; previously with SD-Ast Troppau.
born 17 April 1911, Rottweil a.N.

[George_W]

I have also SS-Ostuf Josef Faulhaber as SD-Referent beim KdS Lublin somewhere around 1940-1941.

George

[steve248]

RSHA VI F
This comes from Situation Report No. 11 dated 9 Nov 1945 issued by Counter Intelligence War Room, London. The report is entitled “Amt VI of the RSHA Gruppe VI F”.
“Gruppe VI F was the technical section of Amt VI and was broadly responsible for the provision of technical material for the use of the Ländergruppen [the country desks of RSHA VI], and also for the supervision of W/T communications for the Amt. At this stage, little information is available on the technical aspects of the Gruppe, as so far only one prominent member of the Gruppe, Dr Schäffner, is under interrogation…
“The origin of the technical department of Amt VI was a somewhat casual affair, and it should be borne in mind that in the original organisation of the RSHA, Amt I was responsible for the overall provision of technical equipment for the whole of the RSHA, the competent Gruppe being Gruppe I G under Stubaf Rauff. The new Amt VI required of course a W/T station to establish communications with its projected representatives in foreign countries, and for this reason a W/T department was set up providing a central receiving and transmitting station at [Berlin-] Grunewald. This department was a purely technical one staffed mainly by civilian technicians and was placed under the control of Gruppe VI B, set up with Naujocks as Gruppenleiter, the Gruppe being described as a technical section of the Amt… The development of the Gruppe, therefore, was rather haphazard and it was not until mid-1942 that it was finally established organisation and wholly defined functions.
“This does not apply to the W/T side of the Gruppe which necessarily had to develop in keeping with the development of the Amt as a whole. The W/T Section soon transferred from Grunewald to Wansee (sic) and was to become known as the Wansee Institute (sic)…”.

There was a lack of information on the early leadership, whether Rauff became Gruppenleiter or not, even in late 1941 when RSHA VI B “did in fact become VI F with, however, Stubaf Dörner as Gruppenleiter. The internal organisation of the Gruppe at that time is uncertain but it is probably that there were – apart from the W/T section at Wansee (sic) – at least three other sections, one dealing with Administration, and other two dealing with Secret Inks under Dr Schamberger and the other under Stubaf Kruger (sic) dealing with forged documents”.

In 1942, RSHA VI F was re-organised as:
Gruppenleiter: SS-Stubaf Dörner
Referat VI F1 (Administration): SS-Ostuf Nöttenberg
Referat VI F2 (Radio Broadcasts Monitoring): position vacant
Referat VI F3 (Technical: Weapons, Secret Inks, Poisons): SS-Stubaf Lassig
Referat VI F4 (Forgery of Documents and Banknotes): SS-Stubaf Krüger
Referat VI F5 – unknown
Referat VI F6 (Wireless Interception): SS-Stubaf Gottlob
Referat VI F7 (Library): SS-Stubaf Fehsel
Referat VI F/O (Unternehmen Otto): SS-Stubaf Dörner
Referat F Hauskapelle (Security): Krim.Direktor Gans
Referar VI F (H) (The Havel Institute): SS-Stubaf Siepen

In 1943, a further re-organisation led to VI F1 and VI F2 being dissolved and absorbed by VI F (H) along with VI F Hauskapelle.

Gruppenleiter Dörner was posted as “Ic to an SS Corps on the Eastern Front” in spring 1944 and was not immediately replaced. Following the take over of the Abwehr, Oberstltn Böning of the Abwehr was “placed in joint command of Gruppe VI F and of Abteilung Mil E and Mil G, the sections of the Abwehr corresponding to Gruppe VI F”.

This long report concludes with a 5 page list of about 200 members of RSHA VI F. There is no mention of Ebben, Kranichsfeld (or other spellings) or any botanical section.

Researchers can find the file in UK National Archives, MI 5 Subject File, KV 3/183.