Adolf Eichmann rank?

[Georges JEROME]

You're right,
to illustrate it : case of Otto Lurker former prison ward at Lansberg (met Hitler) . He rose to the rank of SS-Standartenfürher since 37. SD-Abschnittsführer Graz then KdS Marburg . He was promoted Krim. Oberinspektor on 1944.

wrong information on promotion in SIPO. Have to check .

CONFIRMED AND CORRECTED

befehlsblatt der CSSD 5/1/44
kdrt zum RHSH Amt IV
befehlsblatt der CSSD 12.2.1944
ern. zum Pol. Ober. Insp. SS-Standartenführer Lürker (without mention of office).

[steve248]

I was half right. I see looking at "Eichmann Interrogated" he attended the Kaiser Frank Staatsoberrealschule in Linz/Austria, leaving in 1921, aged 15. There followed 4 terms at the Höhere Bundeslehranstalt für Elektrotechnik, Maschinenbau und Hochbau. "..my father took me out of school because... I hadn't been exactly the most conscientious of students" and went to work in his father's mining company for three months before joining the Austrian Elektrotech and Water Power Company. Lived in Vienna for a time before moving back to Linz.
Eichmann states Kaltenbrunner encouraged him to join the SS - he never mentions they were at school together and due to difference in age and different schools, that is probably true - which he did on 1 April 1932. In Oct 1933 he left Austria for Germany and did not go back for some considerable time.
During his interrogations in Israel Eichmann rarely mentions Kaltenbrunner in the pre-war period.
He does mention leaving the church in 1937 by which time he had been in Germany for 4 years so Kaltenbrunner was hardly chiding.
Eichmann also states he knew nothing about Freemasonry until it became part of his purview at SD.
Peter Black in his biography of Kaltenbrunner makes no mention of any kind of friendship between Kalt. and Eichmann.
Kaltenbrunner married on 14 Jan 1934 so Eichmann may have attended.
Kaltenbrunner arrested by US forces in Alt Aussee on 12 May 1945; Eichmann may have been in the area, more by chance than design as all communications broke down in early May 1945.

[VanillaNuns]

Kaltenbrunner and Eichmann - the final meetings

"Five Days that Shocked the World: Eyewitness Accounts from Europe at the end of World War" by Nicholas Best

and

"Eichmann: His Life and Crimes" by David Cesarani

Pages 198-199

and

"Hunting Eichmann" by Neil Bascomb

[VanillaNuns]

I forgot to say, it's mentioned below in this topic by a few members too.

viewtopic.php?f=38&t=93233

The final screenshot from "Hunting Eichmann" to complete the trilogy.

[steve248]

Which part of a scholarly discussion did you miss in the rubbish above with its invented speech?
Eichmann found Kaltenbrunner playing patience - gimme strength.

[steve248]

I looked up Neil Bascomb, "a writer of popular history" says it all.
I knew the late David Cesarani and he quotes, in the book of his you mention, one of my papers. David always wrote from the Jewish point of view, about the impact of NS persecution and annihilation on Jews.
I was a schoolboy when Eichmann was abducted from Argentina and tried in Israel. Probably what sparked me to study modern Germany history. Before the trial took place numerous, and I mean numerous, books by journalists were published. I can't recall the author, but one was called "Butchers of Berlin" all about Eichmann. The title bore little relevance to the text. I kept this book for 50 years, gathering dust in my loft along with umpteen others. When I moved house last year it met its maker in the recycling business.
Turning to Eichmann and Kaltenbrunner and their youth. Given that there was a three year gap in their ages and they attended different schools and came from very different social backgrounds it is most unlikely they knew each other then. Later, when Kaltenbrunner was organizing and recruiting for the SS at that point they probably met along with many other recruits. Who is to say any different?
When Eichmann came to Vienna in 1938 and set up the Zentralstelle, a lowly SS-Ustuf at the time; and Kaltenbrunner already holding SS General rank (SS-Brigadeführer); both went up a rank on 11 Sept 1938 but that was just coincidental. Who is to say whether they had a contact then.
When Kaltenbrunner became RSHA Chef in Jan 1943 he claims he concentrated on SD Inland and mostly Foreign Intelligence (RSHA III and VI), and paid little interest in RSHA IV where Heinrich Müller had been in charge since RSHA inception and trusted by Himmler. That Kaltenbrunner did concentrate on SD matters, certainly in 1944-1945, is quite well-known: see statements by Eugen Steimle, Wilhelm Waneck and Walter Schellenberg. Steimle and Waneck especially. The absorption of the Abwehr into RSHA VI was time comsuming and continued well into 1945.
Eichmann always claimed he had reported directly to Himmler. The Himmler Dienstkalenders 1941-1942, 1943-1945 and the 1945 stand alone volume do not mention such meetings with any regularity. However Walter Huppenkothen (Nuremberg, Gestapo-Affidavit 39, dated 18 July 1946) stated "dass Eichmann häufig bei Himmler war und von ihm persönlich Weisungen erhalten hat". Because Himmler was regularly absent from Berlin personally I think Eichmann took directions from RSHA IV Chef Müller on a more regular basis.
Kaltenbrunner mentions Eichmann only once in any of his postwar interrogations and when he did the interrogator did not pursue the point. They were more interested in pursuit of his SD foreign intelligence work.
When you post the pages from books above with invented speech and card playing this is nonsense. Eichmann himself states he spent little time in Alt Aussee with his "friend Ernst" (mentioned in his Israeli interrogations just once). Kaltenbrunner was trying to save himself with repeated discussions with Steimle, Waneck and Skorzeny who had combined their separate departments, RSHA VI E and RSHA VI S into RSHA VI ES to organize intelligence gathering and establish stay-behind networks for sabotage. Plus discussions with the Swiss Red Cross management by Kaltenbrunner to "save " Jews and terms for a surrender.
The only source for a chance meeting between Kaltenbrunner and Eichmann in Alt Aussee is Eichmann himself and he says very little about it. Maybe Eichmann was spinning a tale to the Israelis we will never know. And invented speech is just that. You can't beat primary sources.

[VanillaNuns]

Hi Steve,

I don't keep too well at the moment so will have to keep it brief. I get tired quickly (chronic fatigue) not tired of discussion so I wasn't being sarcastic in my earlier remark.

Max Williams writes a biography of Kaltenbrunner in his 3 volume "Praetorian Guard" series. He confirms:

(1) They were at school together and became friends.

(2) They met in Alt Ausee in May 1945 at a villa Kaltenbrunner's mistress had rented.

I don't have the page numbers but it's definitely in Volume 2 of the series. If you contact Max Williams he will confirm this.

Both Max and Mike Miller have written about this above in their respective works over the past 10 years and are highly regarded authors and researchers.

With the other post I referred to clearly showing a photograph of Eichmann at Kaltenbrunner's wedding in 1934, surely the evidence is stacking up now?

[VanillaNuns]

Which part of a scholarly discussion did you miss in the rubbish above with its invented speech?
Eichmann found Kaltenbrunner playing patience - gimme strength.

These books are not aimed at scholars and historians, more "ordinary" armchair history fans. The quotes are perhaps invented but that's not to say they didn't happen in other terms.

It's like watching "Downfall" and saying - no way would Goebbels or Speer have said such a thing at their last meeting with Hitler.

Yet we know the event is still true. Numerous eyewitness claim slight variations on what was said by whom and when. But they are not lying about it happening.

The authors in books 1 and 3 in my above post are like filmmakers, they work with what they have in order to make their books interesting and to engage readers.

"Dumbing down" history is another way of looking at it.

Regarding Kaltenbrunner playing solitaire. I read this many, many years ago but from different sources and relating to the events of 20 July 1944. Apparently he played solitaire all afternoon at RSHA headquarters in Berlin whilst waiting to hear how the situation was developing outside.

The building was surrounded and cordoned off but no attempt was made to storm it. Despite the ridiculous claims to the contrary in the "Valkyrie" movie starring Tom Cruise which was enjoyable but with many inaccuracies.

Why no attempt was made to seize the RSHA and Gestapo offices has always puzzled me, but that's for another topic.

[steve248]

I have said all I want to say.

[VanillaNuns]

I have said all I want to say.

Fair enough. But I think your approach is rather tunnel visioned, having now been provided with 7 books now on the subject, 2 of them written by respected members of this forum, in addition to a photograph where no one comes out and says: that isn't Eichmann.

One more thing regarding Kaltenbrunner at Nuremberg. His defence was truly pathetic to the extent that he denied visiting Mauthausen (despite photographs and eyewitness testimony to the contrary) and even accused Heinrich Muller of forging signatures on documents that he'd signed.

Even his own defence counsel Dr Kaufmann didn't believe a word he said.

Finally, all of the following who were with Kaltenbrunner during the last days referred to meetings with both Eichmann and Skorzeny in their debriefings. See:

Wilhelm Hoettl (Third Army Preliminary Interrogation Report No. 17, June 1945)

Wilhelm Waneck (12th Army Group Intermediate Interrogation Report, June 21, 1945),

Werner Goettsch (USFET Final Interrogation Report No. 8, July 24, 1945)


I have no idea how to access US archives, but the information above is accurate.

See also more references at:

Hitler's Mountain: The Fuhrer, Obersalzberg and the American Occupation of Berchtesgaden - by Arthur Mitchell

and

Hitler's Shadow: Nazi War Criminals, U.S. Intelligence, and the Cold War - by Richard Breitman

and from US archives but published online:

https://www.archives.gov/iwg/declassifi ... hmann.html

This too is my last post on the matter. People can read all the above links, attachments, posts and book details and reach their own conclusions one way or another...

[Michael Miller]

I must apologize for the bit, in my Leaders of the SS & German Police, Volume 2 (2015), about Kaltenbrunner and Eichmann attending school together and becoming friends in their youth. I was parroting what I'd read elsewhere and I did not provide any source for the claim.

Regarding steve248, you will find no finer researcher, full stop. He practically lives in the archives where he does his meticulous work and his contributions to this field of study are incalculable.

Regretfully,
~ Mike

Hi Steve,

I don't keep too well at the moment so will have to keep it brief. I get tired quickly (chronic fatigue) not tired of discussion so I wasn't being sarcastic in my earlier remark.

Max Williams writes a biography of Kaltenbrunner in his 3 volume "Praetorian Guard" series. He confirms:

(1) They were at school together and became friends.

(2) They met in Alt Ausee in May 1945 at a villa Kaltenbrunner's mistress had rented.

I don't have the page numbers but it's definitely in Volume 2 of the series. If you contact Max Williams he will confirm this.

Both Max and Mike Miller have written about this above in their respective works over the past 10 years and are highly regarded authors and researchers.

With the other post I referred to clearly showing a photograph of Eichmann at Kaltenbrunner's wedding in 1934, surely the evidence is stacking up now?

[Max Williams]

Sorry, gents, but there is evidence that Kaltenbrunner and Eichmann were well acquainted with each other since their youth. Both families knew each other well, so I believe Mike and I were right. In his testimony before the Tribunal in Nuremberg on 3 January 1946, Dieter Wisliceny confirmed they knew each other for years:
"....LT. COL. BROOKHART: State, if you know, how long Kaltenbrunner knew Eichmann.
WISLICENY: From various statements by Eichmann I gathered that Kaltenbrunner and Eichmann had known each other for a long time. Both came from Linz, and when Kaltenbrunner was made Chief of the Security Police, Eichmann expressed his satisfaction. He told me at that time that he knew Kaltenbrunner very well personally, and that Kaltenbrunner was very well acquainted with his family in Linz.
LT. COL. BROOKHART: Did Eichmann ever refer to his friendship or standing with Kaltenbrunner as being helpful to him?
WISLICENY: Yes, he repeatedly said that, if he had any serious trouble, he could at any time go to Kaltenbrunner personally. He did not have to do that very often, since his relations with his immediate superior, Gruppenfuehrer Muller, were very good.
LT. COL. BROOKHART: Have you been present when Eichmann and Kaltenbrunner met?
WISLICENY: Yes; once I saw how cordially Kaltenbrunner greeted Eichmann. That was in February 1945 in Eichmann's office in Berlin. Kaltenbrunner came to lunch every day at Kurfurstenstrasse 116; there the chiefs met for their midday meal with Kaltenbrunner; and it was on one such occasion that I saw how cordially Kaltenbrunner greeted Eichmann and how he inquired after the health of Eichmann's family in Linz...."
It stands to reason that for both families to be well acquainted, the men must have known each other since schooldays. There can be no other sensible reason for the acquaintance.
Regards,
Max.

[AliasDavid]

Hello,

Simon Wiesenthal is another witness for a close relationship between Kaltenbrunner and Eichmann:

"In Linz we found out that Eichmann had been there in Septermber 1944. He had visited the leader of the Reich Security Main Office, Ernst Kaltenbrunner, who lived in Linz and was close friends with the Eichmann family" (see this link).

UlrichH

[smetanin albert]

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