New biography of Heydrich

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Max Williams
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Re: New biography of Heydrich

#46

Post by Max Williams » 28 May 2022, 00:40

Totenkomf wrote:
28 May 2022, 00:35

But the seven men team was the one operating Praque?
No. They had separate briefs but came together only to discuss the 'Anthropoid' assignment and to go into hiding. They were never a seven man operational team.
Max.

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Totenkomf
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Re: New biography of Heydrich

#47

Post by Totenkomf » 28 May 2022, 00:42

Alright, straight facts there. Thanks Max.

Not then addressing them as one seperate 7 men team. Altough I knew that they were not all operating as one group only besides the briefing (as You told me).
Last edited by Totenkomf on 28 May 2022, 20:13, edited 2 times in total.
"Befehl ist Befehl"


Max Williams
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Re: New biography of Heydrich

#48

Post by Max Williams » 28 May 2022, 01:22

Totenkomf wrote:
28 May 2022, 00:42
Alright, straight facts there. Thanks Max.

Not then addressing them asone seperate 7 men team. Altough I knew that they were not all operating as one group only besides the briefing.
Yeah, of course you did…..

VanillaNuns
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Re: New biography of Heydrich

#49

Post by VanillaNuns » 28 May 2022, 01:28

Here's is a video stream from Prague earlier today. A reconstruction of events.

It's well over 2 hours long.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47S-_Z3Let0

I suppose this is a good a place as any to post it.

The old road has been mapped out to show what happened where.

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Re: New biography of Heydrich

#50

Post by VanillaNuns » 28 May 2022, 11:25

The wound to Valcik has always puzzled me. He was apparently too far up the road to have been injured by the grenade or splinters of glass from the breaking tram windows.

The chauffeur Klein mentioned he only saw the 2 attackers who stepped out in front of the car.

Yet, there is corroborating evidence from several other sources that he suffered a nasty wound.

A heavy amount of blood was discovered on his pillow the next day at the safe house. Perhaps indicative of a head injury?

His suit also had to be cleaned as it was badly blood stained from the day of the attack. There had been heavy bleeding on the leg of the trousers.

I've asked and looked around but no one seems to have any definitive answer. Many people apparently believe it was an accident whilst he was cleaning or maintaining his gun, but it's one big coincidence too far for me...

I think Miroslav Ivanov's "Target Heydrich" covers it all best in his book.

To Max - have you ever thought about writing another book about Operation Anthropoid?

The plan, the attack, the reprisals and the siege in the church.

There's definitely a huge gap in the English language market for a new one. A definitive account of what happened from December 1941 to June 1942.

Max Williams
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Re: New biography of Heydrich

#51

Post by Max Williams » 28 May 2022, 14:14

VanillaNuns wrote:
28 May 2022, 11:25
The wound to Valcik has always puzzled me. He was apparently too far up the road to have been injured by the grenade or splinters of glass from the breaking tram windows....

I've asked and looked around but no one seems to have any definitive answer. Many people apparently believe it was an accident whilst he was cleaning or maintaining his gun, but it's one big coincidence too far for me...
I don't agree with the accidental discharge theory which, in my opinion, should be completely disregarded. Why on earth would he clean or maintain his weapon at the moment of the attack? Absolute nonsense.
The more plausible explanation is that Valcik possibly hurried towards the junction once he had signalled the approach of the Mercedes to his fellow conspirator, Kubis. Once Gabcik realised his main weapon had failed and Kubis had tossed the grenade, Gabcik dropped the machine gun and ran to escape. He drew his pistol and headed up Kirchmayerstrasse, TOWARDS Valcik, who was either still in position or moving towards the junction. Gabcik was closely followed by Klein at a distance of about 15 metres. It is quite feasible that Valcik engaged the approaching Klein with his pistol and Klein may have discharged a round at Valcik in return, wounding him in the leg and temporarily disabling him. Witnesses at the scene describe hearing several shots. Kubis fired his gun in the air to disorientate passers-by and make good his escape to where he had left his bicycle. Gabcik took the first turning left off the main street, into Kolingarten (Na Kolinske, and since renamed Gabcikova). Klein gave chase and was only prevented from further pursuit when one of Gabcik's subsequent shots struck him in the leg during a gunfight outside Braun's butcher shop. This wound resulted in Klein requiring hospitalisation in the Bulovka Hospital and gave rise to a permanent limp.
Max.

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Re: New biography of Heydrich

#52

Post by J. Duncan » 28 May 2022, 14:48

Hi VN. I watched video (don’t understand what’s being said) but thought the footage interesting.
Are these re-enactments yearly occurrences or only held only on milestone years?

Max Williams
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Re: New biography of Heydrich

#53

Post by Max Williams » 28 May 2022, 15:09

I also watched the video. Apart from the theatrical visual aspect, I fail to see what value acting out the events is adding to the proceedings. Not only was it factually incorrect, the acting was very poor. Sorry, but I found it a total waste of time. A bit like a circus act.
Max.

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Re: New biography of Heydrich

#54

Post by VanillaNuns » 28 May 2022, 20:03

J. Duncan wrote:
28 May 2022, 14:48
Hi VN. I watched video (don’t understand what’s being said) but thought the footage interesting.
Are these re-enactments yearly occurrences or only held only on milestone years?
I think they do it every year now. It's really just for the tourists and school groups. Mostly, they reconstruct the attempt on Anthropoid corner many times over a 2 hour period.

Here's one from a few years back where you get a better view. Once it's over, a new crowd assembles and they repeat it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbq9zQR8d50

Not historically accurate, but fun to watch. Only the first couples of times though and then it gets repetitive...

This one from 2017 is better:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FvyQxuowfM

Max Williams
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Re: New biography of Heydrich

#55

Post by Max Williams » 28 May 2022, 22:50

Hmm…too much like re-enactment. Never been a fan of that.
Max.

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Re: New biography of Heydrich

#56

Post by J. Duncan » 01 Jun 2022, 09:36

Getting back to Ms. Dougherty’s book, despite many obvious flaws, I’m finding it interesting textually. Lina Heydrich shines through , a woman of indomitable will and her interviews bear that out. The author also met with Bruno Streckenbach to get his insights . The book has some merit .

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Re: New biography of Heydrich

#57

Post by Max Williams » 01 Jun 2022, 19:04

J. Duncan wrote:
01 Jun 2022, 09:36
Getting back to Ms. Dougherty’s book, despite many obvious flaws, I’m finding it interesting textually.....The book has some merit .
Instead of just skimming over the text, I decided to read it thoroughly. I have just completed the first chapter of 25 pages, and I thought it might prove beneficial to comment on my original impression of 'sloppiness'.
On page 3, the author twice incorrectly deals with the timeline of events. She first declares that by the Wannsee Conference, Heydrich had been in Prague for 3 months. His appointment had actually occurred 4 months earlier. She also erroneously states the assassination took place 3 months after Wannsee. It was 4 months later. This may seem like nitpicking, but in a historical study, dates are important.
On page 6, she states Heydrich was appointed Reichsprotector - untrue; he was appointed Deputy Reichsprotector. She also declares that Heydrich had countless love affairs. Pure speculation, borne out of rumour and innuendo. Where is the evidence?
Page 8 abounds with mistakes. According to Dougherty, Kubis tossed the grenade into the rear seat of the Mercedes. Wrong; the grenade exploded next to the car, punching a hole through the bodywork and the upholstery. Heydrich fired several shots at his attackers. Wrong; he never used his weapon. Bormann apparently also made a speech at Heydrich's funeral. Strange; his voice does not appear on the radio recording of either the Prague service (he did not attend) or the Berlin service where only Himmler and Hitler spoke. Hitler apparently personally selected Lidice for retribution measures. Wrong; the decision was made locally in the Protectorate. Hitler also apparently said at the funeral, "Heydrich....he was the man with the Iron Heart". Not only is this phrase disputed by almost all informed historians and all witnesses, Dougherty even describes Hitler's voice as "shaking" when he said it! Where is the evidence?
On page 10, Himmler failed every physical test. Wrong; he successfully participated in track running - photos and film confirm this. He also took part successfully in target shooting. Again, confirmed with photographic evidence. Also, according to Dougherty, Himmler insisted on all prospective SS wives supplying a photograph of themselves dressed only in a bathing costume. Absolute nonsense, probably designed to suggest an element of sexual interest on Himmler's behalf. In the many thousands of original SS RuSHA files I personally physically examined over numerous visits to the Berlin Document Centre, I did not ever come across one single such image.
My favourite: on page 13, Dougherty suggests that Himmler only appointed Heydrich to take charge of the SS intelligence service because he thought he might look good in SS uniform! No further comment required.
On page 14, Dougherty describes the Vietze painting. She says that Heydrich was seated "....in a shadowy setting that is inescapably a government office". The dramatists of history would be proud.
These observations are from the first 25 pages of the book alone. I am a little reluctant to continue as I am fearful of what gems are hidden in the remainder.
Max.

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Re: New biography of Heydrich

#58

Post by J. Duncan » 01 Jun 2022, 22:17

That’s pretty shabby / sloppy. I don’t think this woman is a historian or serious researcher. I confess I don’t know all the minutiae concerning Heydrich enough to really pick these details apart but I definitely trust what you have to say on the subject. Some of these stories “man with iron heart” and the bathing suit pictures have been regurgitated by others (namely Alan Wykes who made many allegations without referencing sources although he may have repeated the same himself). I’m having trouble discerning which is Dougherty in the text and which is her sloppy editor / co-author or if it’s both of them committing these errors. I bought the damn thing (40.00!) so I’ll slog through it and just consider it a work of “entertainment”. It’s too bad I never learned German - if I had Lina’s book and could read it, there would be no need for this one would there? I’m interested in what she says but did these interviews even take place? Not sure anymore if it’s that full of untruths in only 25 pages. 😟

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Re: New biography of Heydrich

#59

Post by J. Duncan » 01 Jun 2022, 23:09

You know what? To hell with this. I’ve started return proceedings and will dump this at kohls tomorrow to get my money back. Looking at page 403 with the photo of Max Thomas in place of Blobel, I glanced down to see this about Blobel : “In his post war court appearances , his periodic epileptic seizures were eclipsed by the breathtaking callousness of his testimony”. Otto Rasch was the seizure guy , not epilepsy but Parkinsonism and I don’t think he even testified. Bye. I’m done. It’s trash. I seem to have lost interest eh? Lol.

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Re: New biography of Heydrich

#60

Post by VanillaNuns » 01 Jun 2022, 23:50

Did the interviews even happen?

That's a good question JD.

Everyone is dead. Lina. Nancy. Her husband. The co-author. Bruno Streckenbach.

Unless the tapes of the interviews survive and can be played, I'm wondering if this is the Hitler diaries all over again... 😉 Is someone having a good laugh at our expense?

I mentioned months ago at the beginning of this topic about this mysterious PEN Giroud award that she won in 1987. I looked on Google and there is nothing at all...

No previous recipients. No mention of the "prestigious" award even existing. It's bizarre.

And why interview Lina Heydrich in the mid 1970s and then wait 48 years to publish the book?

Wasn't there a scandal on here a while back about someone who published the memoirs of a German SS soldier who served on the Eastern front? But it was all fantasy.

Yes, the Paul Harker saga:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Directive-19-S ... 598003925/

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Honor-Denied-M ... 432703226/


One of many reviews exposing him as a fraud:
For the last few months a group of published military historians and enthusiasts have been investigating the content, writing and background of the two books "Directive 19" and Honor Denied" by Paul K Harker.

In the course of this, it was proved beyond doubt that neither Rolf Otto Schiller nor Karl von Metzger existed; these are fictional constructs by Paul K. Harker from other historical figures' careers and dropped Forrest Gump-like into a number of historical events in WWII Germany. Despite the author's claim that hundreds of documents were researched in the course of confirming the "memoirs" of these two gentlemen - when offered MANY chances over the last two years, no corroborating proof of ANY sort was ever forthcoming, nor the names of any of the supposed academics who reviewed the works; apart that is from the author trying to palm off a number of very badly-forged documents on a published historian.

Paul Harker is known for creating "sockpuppet" accounts on various forums to talk up his books and stifle any criticism...as well as write fake reviews on various sales sites like Amazon. He's been identified - and admitted in his own blog - as being at various times so far EIGHT different people on the AHF forum - including several who were seeking expert corroboration of faked militaria he was at the time selling thru his "ssarmory" Internet sales outlet. At various times he's claimed his mother was Erwin Rommel's neice, Adolf Eichmann's neice...and even that his grandfather was Adolf Hitler's chauffeur! So far he has claimed - in various faked "names" - a total of ELEVEN members of his immediate family were SS officers or German officers of various ranks, including his own father, in real life a respected veteran of the US Coast Guard.

In the course of confirming that the two protagonists didn't exist, the investigators came across evidence that Harker's claimed careers are ALL faked - he doesn't hold his claimed MA in Psychology, he doesn't hold a BA in Medieval History, he didn't serve in the US Army in central America (he didn't finish Basic Training) and the nearest he ever came to his claimed career in teenage psych counselling since leaving the Army is a short time as a RECEPTIONIST in a halfway house project in Cape May, NJ. Nor has he ever appeared onstage with Roger Waters as he used to claim on the Internet, nor has he enjoyed the many years of lecturing in Holocaust Studies in high schools and colleges he has claimed. They even came across proof that all the travel to Europe to interview Schiller was falsified, along with the claimed correspondance.

Sadly - in the process they ALSO came across a great deal of evidence of Harker's own personal anti-Semitism, and Holocaust Denial...and even Neo-Nazism. One investigator was even able to turn up evidence of a very tasteless history of Anti-Semitism dating back to Harker's schooldays, and a VERY nasty episode when Harker's fantasy world crossed into reality and he appeared in court in his home town in Pennsylvania for Impersonating a State Trooper and was given probation.

The full detail on ALL of this - and even Harker's attempts to run his own faked history forum to provide corroboration for his books can be read on Feldgrau, and an Australian researcher called Peter Gibson has been blogging recently on the investigation, and carried out further work himself.

I don't know about you - but I find it personally offensive that anyone should be willing to lie about his father or assorted relatives being A/ dead and B/ Nazis of varying degree...just to make a buck. Or claim that his mother should be related to various Nazis.
I think it was Michael Miller who rumbled him:

viewtopic.php?t=108193

Passing off fiction as historical events but making multiple errors.

I wonder...

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