Waffen-SS: RK and DKiG Winner - ID required....please!

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John P. Moore
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Kühbander & Prasch

Post by John P. Moore » 19 Nov 2003 19:14

I checked my microfilm records of the former Berlin Document Center SS officer personnel records/Personalakten and here is the result.

Prasch, Helmut born 16.9.1910 in Weissenbach. SS Nr. 324 832. There was only a single document in his file, a Führer Stammkarte. He was indeed an SD officer promoted to Ustuf. on 1.9.41 and Ostuf. on 20.4.43. There was no entry on the right side of this form that he held officer rank in the Waffen-SS or Army. He did have a Waffen-SS rank of Rottenführer der Reserve and served in the W-SS from 27.12.1039 to 25.1.1941 and again from 2.3.1943 with no end date being remarked. One or more SD officers were often assigned to the headquarteres Ic (Intelligence) sections of W-SS divisions and this may have been the case with Prasch. He was awarded and EK I in December 1944 with no class of BA being remarked.

Kühbander had a more extensive file with the latest entry being 7.2.1945 for his transfer from the Karstjäger Div. to the "Prinz Eugen" Div. The award of a BA in Gold is remarked on the back of his Führer Stammkarte. This is no indicatoion inhis Personalakte that K. was even proposed for a DKiG and he is not listed in either the Scheibert or Krätschmer books as being a DKiG recipient. After September 1944 is was possible for a holder of the Nahkampfspange in Gold to also receive a DKiG upon application and without further justification. However, this does not appear to apply to holder of the BA in Gold.

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Matt Gibbs
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Photos and

Post by Matt Gibbs » 20 Nov 2003 01:25

If we now have the photos captioned correctly and there was a simple mix up in the past with the publication of photos then the possible Kuhbandner does appear to hold a close combat bar worn about the pocket in the prescribed manner, John, would this possibly hold up the theory that he may have got the DK..? Have you got his list of awards in full..?
Many thanks for your help and looking in your records on this! I am glad the VB didn't appear to make a spelling mistake..!
I did notice in the online lists of the DK Kuhbandners name does not appear.

Kind Regards
Matt Gibbs

John P. Moore
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Post by John P. Moore » 20 Nov 2003 03:01

The DKiG lists in books and on the Internet are incomplete. I have confirmed several new recipients through documents in their personnel files. Others, such as Claudius Rupp, can be confirmed through a notarized statement from their former commander. Awards of the Knights Cross and DKiG were consistently being recorded in files up through mid-1945 and a list was maintained by the OKW that recorded confirmations and is available through the OdR. Some people claiming to have received these awards were recently found to be false. It is a serious offense in Germany to claim to be the recipient of an award to which one was not entitled. The fact that soldiers are pictured wearing an award cannot be considered proof of award as photos are easy to modify. There is a portrait of Fritz Hahl wearing a DKiG on the cover of his book, 'Mit "Westland" in Osten'. I used Adobe PhotoShop to copy the DKiG from a portrait of Karl-Heinz Bühler and paste it into a portrait of Hahl that had been provided to me by the publisher while the book was in preparation. Accordingly, we can`t confirm at this time that Erich Kühbander was a DKiG recipient. The dates of Kühbanders other awards are not given in his file.

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K.Kocjancic
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Post by K.Kocjancic » 26 Nov 2003 20:06

Another photo of Kühbander:
Image

Regards,
Kocjo

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Matt Gibbs
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great

Post by Matt Gibbs » 26 Nov 2003 22:53

kewl, BIG thanks for posting that! 8)
Whats the source..?
Cheers
Matt Gibbs

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K.Kocjancic
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Post by K.Kocjancic » 26 Nov 2003 23:08

Siegrunen magazine

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Matt Gibbs
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Right

Post by Matt Gibbs » 26 Nov 2003 23:19

For some reason I now wish I had heard of that before now...
Any chance of a photocopy or a scan of this article..?

Cheers
Matt Gibbs

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K.Kocjancic
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Post by K.Kocjancic » 26 Nov 2003 23:22

It's an article on Karstjäger-Div.

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Re: Right

Post by Mark V. » 26 Nov 2003 23:25

Matt Gibbs wrote:For some reason I now wish I had heard of that before now...
Any chance of a photocopy or a scan of this article..?
Me too, Kocjo :) .

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K.Kocjancic
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Post by K.Kocjancic » 15 Jan 2004 14:07

SS-Ostuf. Helmut Prasch, born 16.9.1910.

He was:
- in SS-Pz.Gren.Aufkl.Abt. "Das Reich" (served under SS-Ostuf. Resch);
- beim Kommandeur der SD und des SD - Aussenstelle Stein (Kamnik in Slovene);
- Führer des "SS-Selbst-schutz-Bataillons) in Oberkrain;
- in "Mot. Alpenland 2" (served under Hptm. Buchberger);
- in Pol.Rgt. 18 (served under Hptm. Rehbein);
- in W-SS "Sonderkommando SS-Ostuf. Mayr";
- "in Istrien als Kommando-Führer";
- and then he served in Aussendienststelle Pola (Pula in Croat).

He was awarded with EK II., KVK II m.Schw.; Panzerkampfabzeichen, 2 Dienstauszeichungen der NSDAP, Ostmark-Medaille and Verwundetenabzeichen.

Image
As we can see, this man has all these awards/medals - so this is Prasch (now 1.000% sure :lol: ).

Regards,
Kocjo

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Ivan Ž.
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Post by Ivan Ž. » 27 Jul 2005 17:45

I'm sorry to post the same question again,
but most important photos are missing now;
who is this man?

Mark V.
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Post by Mark V. » 27 Jul 2005 18:22

SS-Ostuf. Helmut Prasch

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Ivan Ž.
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Post by Ivan Ž. » 27 Jul 2005 18:27

Thanks, Mark.

And this one? Kühbandner?

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Post by Mark V. » 27 Jul 2005 18:50

Yes, that's Kühbander.

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Ivan Ž.
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Post by Ivan Ž. » 27 Jul 2005 18:54

Thanks.

Why did Prasch wear an edelweiß?
Also Erwin Rösener?

Cheers,
Ivan

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