Higher SS / SA-ranks as Kriegs- / Militärverwaltungschefs

Discussions on all aspects of the SS and Polizei. Hosted by Andrey.
Runar
Member
Posts: 219
Joined: 02 Aug 2004 13:26
Location: Norway

Collar colour

Post by Runar » 04 Aug 2004 21:00

Vielen dank Oberstab!!
Schönes Bild!
Thanks!

Mit freundlicen Grüssen aus Norwegen
Runar

Runar
Member
Posts: 219
Joined: 02 Aug 2004 13:26
Location: Norway

Militärverwaltungschef

Post by Runar » 04 Aug 2004 21:32

Does anyone have any other pictures of kriegsverwaltungsvizechef/militärverwaltungschef in Wehrmacht uniform?
Thanks!

Runar
Norway

Runar
Member
Posts: 219
Joined: 02 Aug 2004 13:26
Location: Norway

Kriegsverwaltungsvizechef

Post by Runar » 06 Aug 2004 23:15

Here is a scan of a pair of collar tabs for a Kriegsverwaltungsvizechef. Sorry for the poor quality of the scan but it is possible to see the backing colour and piping. This pair would have been attached to the collar of the tunic. The collar would be blue grey, while the tunic itself would be army field grey.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Runar
Member
Posts: 219
Joined: 02 Aug 2004 13:26
Location: Norway

Kriegsverwaltungsvizechef

Post by Runar » 06 Aug 2004 23:19

Here is a picture of Kriegsverwaltungsvizechef Eggert Reeder in uniform with same kind of collar tabs.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
Dieter Zinke
In memoriam
Posts: 9828
Joined: 02 Dec 2003 09:12
Location: Koblenz / germany

Post by Dieter Zinke » 07 Aug 2004 00:08

Runar.
Thank you sincerely for the outstanding pics from these collar-tabs, I never saw them before.

Please you will notice:
Reeder was "only" Militärverwaltungschef (06.06.1940) = Generalleutnant = Ministerialdirektor.
He was never Militärverwaltungsvizechef = Generalmajor = Ministerialdirigent.

Oberstab

Runar
Member
Posts: 219
Joined: 02 Aug 2004 13:26
Location: Norway

Post by Runar » 07 Aug 2004 00:20

Thank you for the information.
I find this topic very very interesting and I appriciate all information.

Runar

User avatar
Dieter Zinke
In memoriam
Posts: 9828
Joined: 02 Dec 2003 09:12
Location: Koblenz / germany

Post by Dieter Zinke » 07 Aug 2004 17:51

Runar ,

your interest is delightful, the subject being very difficult: not only military viewpoints are to be respected, but also Allgemeine / Waffen-SS, trade, agriculture, economy, mining, forest-culture, creating of work, administration, legislature etc. pp.
Therefore each supporting help is welcomed.

In the second volume of “Die Generale der Waffen-SS und der Polizei“ (authors AnDie and myself), coming this year, you will find Wilhelm Küper, Kriegsverwaltungsvizechef, also SS-Brigadeführer und Generalmajor der Waffen-SS (with a pic in civil clothes).
A lot of (partly expensive) footnotes will explain Vierjahresplan, Wirtschaftsführungsstab Ost (under Paul Körner), Wirtschaftsstab Ost (under the generals Schubert, then Thomas, then Stapf), the Zentralhandelsgesellschaft für landwirtschaftlichen Absatz und Bedarf mbH Ost, the Ostfaser GmbH, also containing short bios of MVCh Hans-Joachim Riecke and Generalquartiermeister Eduard Wagner and so on.

BTW:
The collar patches of the MVCh can only be mistaked for the collar patches of “Verwaltungsbeamter im Polizeidienst im Generalsrang”, see the attached pic. These are extremely rare, only two recipients were existing:
Ministerialdirektor Dr. iur. Werner Bracht and
Ministerialdirigent Dr. Rudolf Scheidel


Oberstab
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Runar
Member
Posts: 219
Joined: 02 Aug 2004 13:26
Location: Norway

Post by Runar » 08 Aug 2004 18:08

I look forward to the coming of your book, it will be facinating. The grey collar tabs for Ministerialdirigent and Ministerialdirektor were changed in 1942 to the pattern of SS-Brigadeführer and SS-Gruppenführer, gold on green backing like the rest of the generals of the police. So the ones which are grey were used from 25/6 1936 to 23/ 1942 and they are extremely rare indeed! They are very similar to the collar tabs of the Militärverwaltungschef, but the latter ones has dark green piping.

Here is a scan of insigna used by the rank of Generalmajor der Polizei, and also byMinisterialdirigent
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Runar
Member
Posts: 219
Joined: 02 Aug 2004 13:26
Location: Norway

Post by Runar » 08 Aug 2004 18:16

Sorry for the typing error, it should say that the grey army pattern collar tabs were used by Ministerialdirektor and Ministerialdirigent from 25/6 1936 to 23/7 1942. Then they were changed to the SS pattern for SS-Brif. and SS-gruf, gold wire on green backing.

Runar

User avatar
Dieter Zinke
In memoriam
Posts: 9828
Joined: 02 Dec 2003 09:12
Location: Koblenz / germany

Post by Dieter Zinke » 08 Aug 2004 22:08

Runar wrote:Sorry for the typing error, it should say that the grey army pattern collar tabs were used by Ministerialdirektor and Ministerialdirigent from 25/6 1936 to 23/7 1942. Then they were changed to the SS pattern for SS-Brif. and SS-gruf, gold wire on green backing.

Runar
Hallo Runar,

outstanding pics, vielen herzlichen Dank !!
Dennoch, little supplement and correction:
Mit Erlass vom 22.07.1942 ordnet der RFSS in seiner Eigenschaft als Chef der deutschen Polizei an, dass Polzeigenerale und Verwaltungsbeamte der Polizei im Generalsrang gleichermaßen die neuen SS-typischen Kragenspiegel (dreiblättriges Eichenblatt, ggf. mit Sternen) ab 15.08.1942 zu tragen hatten.

Oberstab

Runar
Member
Posts: 219
Joined: 02 Aug 2004 13:26
Location: Norway

Beamter auf Kriegsdauer

Post by Runar » 14 Aug 2004 22:31

Are there any connections between Beamter auf Kriegsdauer and the Kriegsverwaltung/Miltärverwaltung? I see that the officials appointed as Beamter auf Kriegsdauer have blue grey collars and their Nebenfarbe is light grey, like with the Militärverwaltung.

In this picture a tunic for a Beamte auf Kriegsdauer is identified as the rank of Kriegsverwaltungsinspektor/Militärsverwaltungsinspektor. But the shoulderboards have the standard HV (Heeres Verwaltung) cyphers, rather than the prescribed Heeresadler.

Runar
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
Dieter Zinke
In memoriam
Posts: 9828
Joined: 02 Dec 2003 09:12
Location: Koblenz / germany

Post by Dieter Zinke » 14 Aug 2004 23:11

Hallo Runar,

the Kriegs/Militärverwaltung had no shoulder badges. Only one "Nebenfarbe".

The "Heeresverwaltung" ("HV"-shoulder badge) was another career for:
Intendanten, Techn. Beamte, Bauräte, Zahlmeister, Apotheker, Heeressportlehrer, Bibliothekare, Kriegsgerichts...räte, Zahnärzte, Remonte and so on.
Waffenfarbe dark-green with Nebenfarbe showing the function of the official, so
Remonte: Kavalleriegelb
Verwaltung: rot
Apotheker: grün
Justiz: hellblau and so on.

Oberstab

User avatar
Dieter Zinke
In memoriam
Posts: 9828
Joined: 02 Dec 2003 09:12
Location: Koblenz / germany

Post by Dieter Zinke » 14 Aug 2004 23:43

Kriegsverwaltungschef Dr. Jonathan Schmid.
The pic

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=52254

Oberstab

User avatar
Dieter Zinke
In memoriam
Posts: 9828
Joined: 02 Dec 2003 09:12
Location: Koblenz / germany

Post by Dieter Zinke » 12 Oct 2004 17:15

Another Kriegsverwaltungschef (Thank you Philmil for the reference !!):

SS Oberführer Dr. iur. Johannes Müller :

summer 1940 until the end of 1940: Leiter der Verwaltungsabteilung bei der Oberfeldkommandantur 520 (Charleroi / Belgien)
end of 1940 until summer 1942: Kriegsverwaltungschef bei der Oberfeldkommandantur 670 in Lille

Oberstab

User avatar
Dieter Zinke
In memoriam
Posts: 9828
Joined: 02 Dec 2003 09:12
Location: Koblenz / germany

Post by Dieter Zinke » 21 Oct 2004 09:10

A pic of

Kriegsverwaltungsvizechef SS-Brigadeführer Hellmut Körner

is to be seen in

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=61640

Oberstab

Return to “The Phil Nix SS & Polizei section”