19. SS-Standarte

[BB-WA]

In 1931, was the 19. SS-Standarte HQ in Gelsenkirchen. If so when did it move to Münster?

Regards
Brian

BTW - Nice link Mike

[BB-WA]

08.03.1934. - 14.12.1934. - SS-Obersturmbannführer. Fritz Meyer SS# 3 196 - (Stuf 08.09.31, Ostuf skip, Shauptf 01.12.32, Stubaf 03.09.33, Ostubaf 14.02.34, Staf 20.04.34, Oscharf.d.W-SS 16.03.44, degraded to SS-Mann in A-SS 10.06.44) - (14.12.1934 - 15.02.1935, On leave [at that time was detained by civilian authorities do not know for what] during this period he also passes courses for officer candidates in the army reserve) - Trans. 15.02.1935 - 02.04.1935, as Führer, z.b.V. SS-Oberabschnitt Süd -

Regards
Brian

[Mikedc]

Hey Brian,

Glad you like what's been posted on that forum by John Moore, it are for sure very interesting documents.
And since this thread here is dealing with 19. Standarte I thought the link would be welcome for the folks that did post info here.......

Thank you for the info about Meyer.
Mike

[HPL2008]

But what strikes me is that in these documents posted on this other forum they talk about 1/19, 3/19, 7/19, 8/19, 10/19 and so on, so I presume the first number is mentioning the Sturmme within this Standarte. But that's different than what's displayed in this thread here since here with every Sturmbann they start all over again with the mumbers 1 to ??

Originally, the Stürme (= companies) were numbered from the number 1 in each Sturmbann (= battalion), thus the numbers could be duplicated within the several Sturmbanne.
This system was revised in June 1934, when the Stürme were assigned consecutive numbers based on four Stürme per Sturmbann in ascending order. (Sturmbann I = Sturm 1 - 4, Sturmbann II = Sturm 5 - 8 etc.)
(Info taken from Angolia's "Cloth Insignia of the SS")

[Ludger]

In 1931, was the 19. SS-Standarte HQ in Gelsenkirchen. If so when did it move to Münster?

Regards
Brian

BTW - Nice link Mike

According to http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=3378 HQ of 19. SS-Standarte moved from Gelsenkirchen to Münster in 1932.

[Mikedc]

Hello HPL2008,

Thanks for the explanation, now it's pretty clear to me. I knew that 1 Sturmbann normally consisted of 4 Sturme but I got confused by that other system, from which I now know they used that before June 1934.
But how many Sturme did each Sturmbann had before June 1934 if I may ask???


Mike

[Phil Nix]

I think it varied i.e. SS Standarte 25 had a 6 Sturm in II Sturmbann its Kdr was Paul Nell, SS Standarte 35 had a 5 Sturm in II Sturmbann under Karl Schafer 1.2.1932 and SSC Syandarte 13 had a 5 Sturm in II MSturmbann under Willy Stemler 24.12.1932 SS Standarte 5 had a V Sturmbann with 5 Sturm under Hewrmann Heidrich and a 5 Sturm in III Sturmbann in 5 Standarte under Walter Heck 24.12.1932
Phil Nix

[BB-WA]

Hi HPL2008 , Ludger and Phil
Its an old topic brought back to life thanks to Mike.I must admit I was as confused as Mike when I looked at the documents due to the numbering system (John Moore - http://www.feldgrau.net/forum/viewtopic ... 42&t=29673 ).

Any other early "Voschlagsprotokoll" regarding other SS-Standarte if they can be posted would be more than welcome.

*Ludger thanks for the HQ link (http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=3378)

*HPL2008 thankyou for the explanation
"This system was revised in June 1934, (Info taken from Angolia's "Cloth Insignia of the SS")"
So my understanding is this now becomes!!
-I/19
--1/I/19 > 1/I/19 - After June 1934
--2/I/19 > 2/I/19 - "
--3/I/19 > 3/I/19 - "
--4/I/19 > 4/I/19 - "
-II/19
--1/II/19 > 5/II/19 - "
--2/II/19 > 6/II/19 - "
--3/II/19 > 7/II/19 - "
--4/II/19 > 8/II/19 - "
-III/19
--1/III/19 > 9/III/19 - "
--2/III/19 > 10/III/19 - "
--3/III/19 > 11/III/19 - "
--4/III/19 > 12/III/19 - "
--5/III/19 > After June 1934 this Sturm would have been disbanded and absorbed by other Sturm ??
-IV/19 - The last numbered Sturmbann was always the Reservesturmbann even before June 1934 ??
--1/IV/19 > Res 1/ 19 - "
--2/IV/19 > Res 2/ 19 - "
--3/IV/19 > Res 3/ 19 - "
--4/IV/19 > Res 4/ 19 - "

*Phil thanks for past and present info on this topic

Regards
Brian

[BB-WA]

I hope Andreas doesn't mind me reposting this info here as this topic has been getting a good response lately.
Post from AnDie 23.05.2004 from another topic to do with 19. SS-Standarte
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=50728

Hans Prützmann was 03.08.1931 - 11.01.1932 beauftragt mit der Verwaltung der 19. SS-Standarte (Gelsenkirchen) and 11.01.1932 - 06.09.1932 Führer der 19. SS-Standarte.
Karl Schulz was 16.08.1933 - 01.03.1934 beauftragt mit der Führung der 19. SS-Standarte.
Friedrich Gehrhardt 01.03.1934 - 08.03.1934 beauftragt mit der Führung der 19. SS-Standarte.
Willy Tensfeld was 16.03.1935 - 01.04.1936 Führer der 19. SS-Standarte.
Heinrich Neumann was 01.12.1940 - 01.02.1943 Führer der 19. SS-Standarte.
Wilhelm Asmus was 12.11.1940 - 00.05.1945 Führer der 123. SS-Standarte (see also DAL 09.11.1944)

From the above info is this now correct ?
01.02.1943. - 00.05.1945. - ?????????
01.12.1940. - 01.02.1943. - Heinrich Neumann - Führer der 19. SS-Standarte.
01.07.1938. - 12.11.1940. - Wilhelm Asmus - Führer der 19. SS-Standarte. - to Führer, 123. SS-Standarte
01.10.1937. - 01.07.1938. - Hermann Peter - Führer der 19. SS-Standarte.
01.04.1936. - 01.10.1937. - Hermann Schmauser - Führer der 19. SS-Standarte.
16.03.1935. - 01.04.1936.- Willy Tensfeld - Führer der 19. SS-Standarte.
08.03.1934. - 14.12.1934. - Fritz Meyer (Mayer?) - Führer der 19. SS-Standarte.
01.03.1934. - 08.03.1934. - Friedrich Gehrhardt - beauftragt mit der Führung der 19. SS-Standarte.
16.08.1933. - 01.03.1934. - Karl Schulz - beauftragt mit der Führung der 19. SS-Standarte.
01.04.1933. - 16.08.1933. - Robert Brinkmann - Führer der 19. SS-Standarte.
06.09.1932. - 01.04.1933. - Waldemar Wappenhans - Führer der 19. SS-Standarte.
11.01.1932. - 06.09.1932. - Hans Prützmann - Führer der 19. SS-Standarte.
03.08.1931. - 11.01.1932. - Hans Prützmann - beauftragt mit der Verwaltung der 19. SS-Standarte (Gelsenkirchen)

Some questions
[1] - Is "beauftragt mit der Verwaltung" to do with setting up the Standarte if so why wasn't he (m.d.F.b) ?

[2] - Fritz Meyer (Mayer?) which is correct? I have seen both giving the same SS# 3 196.

The link at http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=3378 - gives the version I originally worked off which is the one you have corrected in the above post.
[3] - Is Heinrich Neurath a misspelling in the above link and it should be Heinrich Neumann ?? SS# if possible!

[4] - Who took over after 01.02.1943 ??

Thanks for any replies

Regards
Brian

[Mikedc]

Hey Brian,

As far as I know Verwaltung is the German word for Administration so he was in charge of the administration from that Standarte, also called the administrative-officer(IVa).
As far as I know it's Standartenführer Fritz Meyer.

Hope this helps a bit.
Greetings,
Mike

[BB-WA]

Hi Mike

Prützmann was charged with the Administration of 19. SS-Standarte and five months later became the first Führer. So he was the senior officer from the beginning. It seems he was also responsible for its formation. I was trying to find out why he was designated "beauftragt mit der Verwaltung" instead of "beauftragt mit der Führung - m.d.F.b." as was more commonly used in appointments.

eg. Gehrhardt and Schulz later Führer der 19. SS-Standarte.
01.03.1934. - 08.03.1934. - Friedrich Gehrhardt - beauftragt mit der Führung der 19. SS-Standarte.
16.08.1933. - 01.03.1934. - Karl Schulz - beauftragt mit der Führung der 19. SS-Standarte.

Regards
Brian

[Ignacio]

First "Verwalter" (as deputy Führers were by then designated) of the 19.SS-Standarte Westfalen-Nord was Fritz Schlessmann. Previosuly Führer of the predecessor SS-Standarte XXII "Westfalen", Schlessmann was appointed Verwalter of the new Standarte on 30.01.31. I guess he was succeeded by Prützmann in August.

Schlessmann also served as Verwalter of the new 30.SS-Standarte Westfalen-Süd from 30.01.31 to 30.03.31, when confirmed as permanent Führer of this Standarte.

Regards

Ignacio

[Ignacio]

Forgot: I agree the 1934 Standartenführer was Fritz Meyer.

Regards

Ignacio

[Phil Nix]

I hope Andreas doesn't mind me reposting this info here as this topic has been getting a good response lately.
Post from AnDie 23.05.2004 from another topic to do with 19. SS-Standarte
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=50728

Hans Prützmann was 03.08.1931 - 11.01.1932 beauftragt mit der Verwaltung der 19. SS-Standarte (Gelsenkirchen) and 11.01.1932 - 06.09.1932 Führer der 19. SS-Standarte.
Karl Schulz was 16.08.1933 - 01.03.1934 beauftragt mit der Führung der 19. SS-Standarte.
Friedrich Gehrhardt 01.03.1934 - 08.03.1934 beauftragt mit der Führung der 19. SS-Standarte.
Willy Tensfeld was 16.03.1935 - 01.04.1936 Führer der 19. SS-Standarte.
Heinrich Neumann was 01.12.1940 - 01.02.1943 Führer der 19. SS-Standarte.
Wilhelm Asmus was 12.11.1940 - 00.05.1945 Führer der 123. SS-Standarte (see also DAL 09.11.1944)

From the above info is this now correct ?
01.02.1943. - 00.05.1945. - ?????????
01.12.1940. - 01.02.1943. - Heinrich Neumann - Führer der 19. SS-Standarte.
01.07.1938. - 12.11.1940. - Wilhelm Asmus - Führer der 19. SS-Standarte. - to Führer, 123. SS-Standarte
01.10.1937. - 01.07.1938. - Hermann Peter - Führer der 19. SS-Standarte.
01.04.1936. - 01.10.1937. - Hermann Schmauser - Führer der 19. SS-Standarte.
16.03.1935. - 01.04.1936.- Willy Tensfeld - Führer der 19. SS-Standarte.
08.03.1934. - 14.12.1934. - Fritz Meyer (Mayer?) - Führer der 19. SS-Standarte.
01.03.1934. - 08.03.1934. - Friedrich Gehrhardt - beauftragt mit der Führung der 19. SS-Standarte.
16.08.1933. - 01.03.1934. - Karl Schulz - beauftragt mit der Führung der 19. SS-Standarte.
01.04.1933. - 16.08.1933. - Robert Brinkmann - Führer der 19. SS-Standarte.
06.09.1932. - 01.04.1933. - Waldemar Wappenhans - Führer der 19. SS-Standarte.
11.01.1932. - 06.09.1932. - Hans Prützmann - Führer der 19. SS-Standarte.
03.08.1931. - 11.01.1932. - Hans Prützmann - beauftragt mit der Verwaltung der 19. SS-Standarte (Gelsenkirchen)

Some questions
[1] - Is "beauftragt mit der Verwaltung" to do with setting up the Standarte if so why wasn't he (m.d.F.b) ?

[2] - Fritz Meyer (Mayer?) which is correct? I have seen both giving the same SS# 3 196.

The link at http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=3378 - gives the version I originally worked off which is the one you have corrected in the above post.
[3] - Is Heinrich Neurath a misspelling in the above link and it should be Heinrich Neumann ?? SS# if possible!

[4] - Who took over after 01.02.1943 ??

Thanks for any replies

Regards
Brian

Heinrich Neurath born 19.7.1887 promoted SS staf 9.11.1941 is correct SS Nr 19417 Party Nr 322159 Führer 29 SS Sta 1938. Fritz Meyer born 26.4.1900 SS Nr 3196 Party Nr 33146 is correct SS Staf Wilhelm Asmus took over 1.2.43
Phil Nix

[BB-WA]

Hi Ignacio

Thanks for the Meyer confirmation.

Thanks for the explanation

First "Verwalter" (as deputy Führers were by then designated) of the 19.SS-Standarte Westfalen-Nord was Fritz Schlessmann. Previosuly Führer of the predecessor SS-Standarte XXII "Westfalen", Schlessmann was appointed Verwalter of the new Standarte on 30.01.31. I guess he was succeeded by Prützmann in August.

I need to amend the beginning of my list.

06.09.1932. - 01.04.1933. - Waldemar Wappenhans - Führer der 19. SS-Standarte.
11.01.1932. - 06.09.1932. - Hans Prützmann - Führer der 19. SS-Standarte.
03.08.1931. - 11.01.1932. - Hans Prützmann - beauftragt mit der Verwaltung der 19. SS-Standarte (Gelsenkirchen)
30.01.1931. - 03.08.1931. - Fritz Schlessmann - beauftragt mit der Verwaltung der 19. SS-Standarte (Gelsenkirchen) - zug. 30.01.1931 - 30.03.1931, m.d.V.b. 30. SS-Standarte - 30.03.1931 - 16.11.1933, Führer 30. SS-Standarte -

30. SS-Standarte -
14.12.1933. - 01.01.1935. - Carl Sattler - Führer 30. SS-Standarte
30.03.1931. - 16.11.1933. - Fritz Schlessmann - Führer 30. SS-Standarte
30.01.1931. - 30.03.1931. - Fritz Schlessmann - m.d.V.b. 30. SS-Standarte
Adjutant -
00.03.1931. - 15.08.1931. - Hans Prützmann - Trans. as m.d.V.b. 19. SS-Standarte

Only on thing I don't understand out of this is who were they deputy (m.d.V.b.) to?
What date was this designation used SS-Standarte XXII "Westfalen" I have only seen them used like this for SS-Abschnitte.

Regards
Brian