Two Paul Werner

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thomas
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Two Paul Werner

Post by thomas » 01 Jun 2005 13:00

Dear all

I have a little confusion:

I have two Paul Werner:

1. was SS-Oberführer and IdS in Stettin
2. was SS-Untersturmführer and Chef Gestapo-Leitstelle in Köslin.

Are these both the same man or different men.

Thank you for any additional information.

Greetings

thomas

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Michael Miller
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Post by Michael Miller » 01 Jun 2005 15:49

[Disregard this post based on the info. kindly posted by Phil / Mike]

I don't have any books with me at the moment, so can't be sure- but I think they may be one and the same. Both Köslin and Stettin were in Pommern.

Best wishes,
~ Mike
Last edited by Michael Miller on 01 Jun 2005 17:12, edited 1 time in total.

Phil Nix
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Post by Phil Nix » 01 Jun 2005 16:59

Two different men I think Usf Paul Werner born 5.9.1890 Party nr 1293714 SS Nr 280216 Usf 9.11.38 Attached to SDHA 1938
Of Paul Werner see attached
There is also Osf Paul Werner born 12.10.1895 Party Nr 1434282 SS Nr 45847 Usf 20.4.35 Osf 11.9.38 attached to Stammabteilung bezirk 16
Phil Nix
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Mikedc
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Post by Mikedc » 01 Jun 2005 17:13

I agree with Phil, I also think it are two different persons.

This is what I've about the first Paul Werner.
Born 5-9-1890 in Dragas.
SS-Hauptsturmführer und Kriminalrat der Polizei.
Was head of Abteilung IV A within the Gestapo from the KdS in Warschau.
Later on he also became head of Referat IV B(Catholics, Cults, etc.)within Amt IV(Gestapo)from the KdS in Warschau.

And I also have a second Paul Werner and that's the SS-Oberführer. But my info about that officer is nothing when you compare it with what Phil has provided here.
I thank Phil once more for his excellent contribution because this is again an excellent bio, I only now I can add alot
to my file about this Paul Werner.

And about the third Paul Werner I never have heard before so that info in completely new for me.


Greetings,
Mike

thomas
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Post by thomas » 02 Jun 2005 07:03

Dear Phil, Mike and Micdec

Thank you very much for this answers.

Greetings

thomas

Mikedc
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Post by Mikedc » 30 Dec 2007 16:14

Just one question about SS-Oberführer Dr. Paul Werner.
When was he promoted to SS-Oberführer?? On the same date maybe as he was promoted to Oberst der Polizei(28-10-42)or on another date???

And here some writings that are not all in Phils bio about this Dr. Paul Werner. I got this info from his Wikipedia-file.....

Paul Werner wurde am 4. November 1900 im badischen Appenweier als Sohn eines Reichsbahninspektors geboren. Werner wuchs in Heidelberg auf, wohin sein Vater 1902 versetzt wurde. Nach dem Notabitur wurde er 1918 noch für die letzten Monate des 1. Weltkrieges eingezogen. In Heidelberg und Freiburg nahm Werner nach Kriegsende ein Studium der Rechtswissenschaften auf und legte 1923 das Referendarexamen mit der Note „lobenswert“ ab. Er wurde als Hilfsrichter und Hilfsstaatsanwalt in Baden eingesetzt, bevor er sein Assessorexamen 1926 mit der Bewertung „gut“ ablegte. Werner absolvierte die gewöhnliche Berufslaufbahn als Staatsanwalt in Offenburg und Pforzheim sowie als Zivil- und Arbeitsrichter am Amtsgericht Lörrach, wo er 1933 zum Amtsgerichtsrat ernannt wurde. Schon als Student fühlte er sich der national-völkischen Politikrichtung verbunden, ohne sich jedoch parteipolitisch zu binden. In die NSDAP trat er erst nach der nationalsozialistischen Machtübernahme am 1. Mai 1933 ein.

And here some info about this postwar career, also from his Wikipedia-file:

Nach dem Krieg gelang es Werner zwar nicht wieder bei der Kriminalpolizei Verwendung zu finden. Allerdings wurde er nach der Einstufung als „Mitläufer“ im Entnazifizierungsverfahren 1951 als Regierungsrat im Innenministerium von Baden-Württemberg eingestellt. 1955 wurde er wieder zum Ministerialrat ernannt und war zuständig für Verfassungsfragen. Selbst für die Nachfolge von Dr. Hanns Jess als Präsident des Bundeskriminalamtes wurde Werner 1955 vorgeschlagen. Dazu kam es jedoch aufgrund einer negativen Stellungnahme des zuständigen Referenten des Bundesinnenministeriums nicht. Ein Ermittlungsverfahren der Staatsanwaltschaft Stuttgart gegen Werner wurde 1962 eingestellt. In einer Aussage vor der Generalstaatsanwaltschaft Frankfurt am Main am 16. November 1962 räumte Werner ein: „Selbstverständlich habe ich von den Einsatzkommandos im Osten gewußt und z. B. von Auschwitz“.



Greetings,
Mike

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Minotauros
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Re: Two Paul Werner

Post by Minotauros » 03 Sep 2012 11:44

Mikedc,

Can you please tell me more about SS-Hauptsturmführer und Kriminalrat Paul WERNER (born on 05 IX 1890 in Dragass - Dragacz in Poland, nowadays)?

According to my informations, he was head of the Referat IV A (Abteilung IV GESTAPO, Der Kommandeur der Sicherheitspolizei und des Sicherheitsdienst für den Distrikt Warschau) from 1940 to 1944.

George_W
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Re: Two Paul Werner

Post by George_W » 06 Sep 2012 21:08

Werner was head of IV B, in early 1944 he succeeded Höhmann as head of IV A.
Married Marie Plotzke in 1920.
Heimatdienstelle: Stapo Stettin, AdS Köslin
"Ermittlungsverfahren" (1941) for "Plünderung", but "eingestellt" in 1942.

That's all i have.

George

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Re: Two Paul Werner

Post by Minotauros » 11 Sep 2012 09:40

George, I have SS-Hauptsturmführer und Kriminalrat WERNER as head of Abt. IV A/KdS Warschau from 1940 to V 1944 (succeeded by SS-Hauptsturmführer Harald WIESMANN).
According to my informations, the head of Abt. IV B/KdS Warschau was SS-Obersturmführer Karl Georg BRANDT.

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Re: Two Paul Werner

Post by George_W » 11 Sep 2012 21:33

Hello

In fact, Brandt was the chief of IV B4 (and Werner's deputy) not all IV B.
According to Domanska and Bartoszewski, Werner was chief of IV B and next IV A.

George

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Re: Two Paul Werner

Post by Minotauros » 10 May 2018 10:02

George_W wrote:Hello

In fact, Brandt was the chief of IV B4 (and Werner's deputy) not all IV B.
According to Domanska and Bartoszewski, Werner was chief of IV B and next IV A.

George
Yes, indeed!
The chief of Referat IV B (Kirchen, Konfessionen und Sekten) KdS Warschau was SS-Obersturmführer und Kriminalkommissar Johannes Alfred BÖHM [17 II 1912 Dresden - 1999].
SS-Untersturmführer und Kriminalobersekretär Karl Georg BRANDT [05 XI 1898 Karlowitz/Karłowice - 16 II 1945 Poznań] was head of Unter Referat IV B4 (Judenangelegenheiten).
SS-Hauptsturmführer und Kriminalrat Paul WERNER [05 IX 1890 Dragass/Dragacz] headed briefly the Referat IV B in 1942.

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Minotauros
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Re: Two Paul Werner

Post by Minotauros » 10 May 2018 10:03

George_W wrote:Werner was head of IV B, in early 1944 he succeeded Höhmann as head of IV A.
Married Marie Plotzke in 1920.
Heimatdienstelle: Stapo Stettin, AdS Köslin
"Ermittlungsverfahren" (1941) for "Plünderung", but "eingestellt" in 1942.

That's all i have.

George
He was the father of four daughters.
As far, as I know, SS-Hauptsturmführer und Kriminalrat Wilhelm Gottlieb HÖHMANN [07 I 1907 Remscheid – IX 1961 suicide] was replaced as head Referat IV 1 (former IV A) KdS Warschau in May 1944 by SS-Hauptsturmführer und Kriminalrat Harald WIESMANN [22 IV 1909 Krefeld - 24 IV 1947 Praha] (seriously wounded on 20 VII 1944 during a riot in the Gefängnis der SIPO und des SD "Pawiak"), not by WERNER.

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Re: Two Paul Werner

Post by George_W » 10 May 2018 11:01

According to my info Höhmann was replaced by Werner as Leiter IV A (later IV 1) in the second half of 1943 and Werner was replaced by Wiesmann as Leiter IV 1. Werner was transferred to Stapo Köslin around May 1944 and then Wiesmann came to KdS Warschau.

George

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Re: Two Paul Werner

Post by Minotauros » 12 May 2018 06:57

George_W wrote:Werner was transferred to Stapo Köslin around May 1944 and then Wiesmann came to KdS Warschau.

George
The Befehlsblatt announced the transfer of Paul WERNER as chief of Staatspolizeistelle Köslin on 3 VI 1944. So he must have left Warsaw a few days later.

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Re: Two Paul Werner

Post by George_W » 12 May 2018 07:14

According to the BBL Köslin was only the Aussendienststelle of Stapo Stettin at that time.

As far i know the entries in BBL's were published some time after the fact of transfer, promotion or nomination, so i believe that he left KdS Warschau in May or oven a bit earlier. Of course i can be wrong.

George

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