Jochen Peiper picture from 1957

[Mona]

I'm not saying Peiper wasn't a war criminal. Technically, he is...
But, for me, the major war crime in WWII were the concentration camps, and I'm not saying just the ones where the Jewish people were sent, this includes homosexuals and communists, etc. After meeting a lot of WWII veterans, I found myself agreeing with many of them on one point: that the real war crime was the concentration camps, as well as murder of civilians. The veterans that I met said that they held no grudge against German soldiers who killed American POWs, because they (the vets, or in some cases people that they knew), had killed German POWs, and most ruled out killing of POWs as war crimes.
You may be interested into knowing why I'm not that... upbeat about condemning Peiper. Well, when I used to live in the East, one of my friends at school had a grandfather who was an American POW of Peiper's battalion-whatever in La Gleize. After the end of the war, her grandfather offered to testify at Peiper's trial because he had spoken w/Peiper and believed that he was a good man. Her grandfather was half Jewish, and certainly didn't look Aryan.
That had a lasting impact on me, and it was sorta chilling, because I was REALLY young at the time, and me and my friend would just sit on the couch and listen to her grandpa talk about his old war days, and he didn't censor anything (my friend and I were mature enough, but it didn't make it any less frightening). I had nightmares for weeks. I was totally freaked.
I've read Agte and "The Devil's Adjutant", but no, Timo, I've never read Sjowal or Wahloo. I can only get the books from out library system!! Which, although is very nice, doesn't exactly have every book that's on Amazon, for example. My parents don't give me an allowance, so I scrape up what I can off the web and library, and I had a correspondence w/my friend after I moved, but her grandfather died in 03, heart failure.
I think it's really hard to distinguish war crimes. You'll always have the defendants saying "we're innocent" (which they might be), and then the accusers (who may also be right). How do you decide? It's not like Steven Spielberg and Tom Hanks were there w/cameras and shooting everything. And people always say, "listen to those who have nothing to gain". Well, in war crimes trials, everyone has something to gain and something to lose.
Everyone involved in WWII was condemned. To nightmares and and grief and horrors I, for one, will never know.

[Harro]

I'm not saying Peiper wasn't a war criminal. Technically, he is... But, for me, the major war crime in WWII were the concentration camps, and I'm not saying just the ones where the Jewish people were sent, this includes homosexuals and communists, etc.

You will find very good sources about Peipers point of view as I would evaluate him as an so called "Alt-Nazi" and Peipers knowledge and duty during his time with his beloved and admired Himmler at Zentrale Stelle der Landesjustizverwaltung Ludwigsburg. There you will find a lot of statements given by Peiper himself. Very interesting are his statements from 1967 in the context with the Dr. Best trial. He speaks about the Ghetto of Warschau, the gasing of human beings, has always nice excuses, nice storries and not one word of regret. [...] And you will be horrified, if you read his statements about the gasing. He even looked through the window during the gasing, his description is ice cold.

[Dieter Zinke]

When Agte and associates begin to write they know the results of their work: a clear and immaculate german hero Peiper, only failed by the cowardly GI' s, a deceitful trial and killed by assassins. All other states of affairs keep secret intentionally. This is a preconceived opinion.

The investigations of a scientific historian like Westemeier have to be always open in their results, only being obliged to the truth according to the documents in the archives in whole the world.

What diagnosis should be the right one of a medical doctor: the diagnosis the patient wants to hear - or the right one, even if a fateful one ?!?

You can choose yourself: Attending to a mendacious myth ad infinitum or definitively accept the power of the better arguments.

Dieter Z.

[Reader3000]

As a student of history at university - and from my own made up mind, I can fully support the postings by jeweste and Dieter Zinke.
The sources are clear enough to have that outcome as jeweste pointed out.

[Schiller]

I have to agree with Timo on this one, why all these excuses for a man who knowingly participated in a system that executed people for their religion?

Historically and objectively, it is one-dimensional to believe that this "system" executed people solely for their religion. If you properly research the "system" you will find there were many social, political, economic and collectivist reasons for the executions. I am not advocating this matter, nor am I trying to open a floodgate. However, the belief that atrocities occurred solely due to religious beliefs is a naive misconception.

[Harro]

Look at pictures of a 5-year-old jewish child from the Ukraine and ask yourself if the Einsatztruppen shot him for more than just his religion.

[Dieter Zinke]

The discussion begins to leave the topic again. Pay attention, otherwise this will be locked definitively!!
Speaking for the forum-staff

[OMK]

Schiller,

There might be more than just the one reason that drove the system. That is not really my point. My point is that this man worked actively for a system that committed cruelties against humanity. During his time in the system he knew of the concentration camps (it is unthinkable that Himmlers adjutant did not know, especially since he is also photographed in concentration camps, doing tours..) Not only did he work for the system, he kept defending it at a time when the world knew too much to allow this sort of defence.

OMK

[Harro]

During his time in the system he knew of the concentration camps (it is unthinkable that Himmlers adjutant did not know, especially since he is also photographed in concentration camps, doing tours..)

You will find very good sources about Peipers point of view as I would evaluate him as an so called "Alt-Nazi" and Peipers knowledge and duty during his time with his beloved and admired Himmler at Zentrale Stelle der Landesjustizverwaltung Ludwigsburg. There you will find a lot of statements given by Peiper himself. Very interesting are his statements from 1967 in the context with the Dr. Best trial. He speaks about the Ghetto of Warschau, the gasing of human beings, has always nice excuses, nice storries and not one word of regret. [...] And you will be horrified, if you read his statements about the gasing. He even looked through the window during the gasing, his description is ice cold.

[Dieter Zinke]

Timo,
I have to agree with you. And you have had the final observation of this thread.
The thread is now locked.
Dieter Zinke