" Salon Kitty"

[DennisW]

Excellent review, JV.
Is Norden still alive? I almost believed it was a pseudonym.
Have you ever seen actual documentary evidence of Kitty? The memo to Wolff was about the best I've seen.

[jv]

Excellent review, JV.
Is Norden still alive? I almost believed it was a pseudonym.
Have you ever seen actual documentary evidence of Kitty? The memo to Wolff was about the best I've seen.

I understand that Norden is still alive. He runs a PR firm. He was also script-writer for the Salon Kitty. You may have also seen the film version which has been universally discarded as a sexploitation film. There is indeed no documentary evidence of Salon Kitty as far as I know. In his book Norden even states that there was a lack of documentary evidence regarding Salon Kitty and, almost as a complaint, makes the observation that Heinz Hoehne left out Salon Kitty in his standard publication on the SS because of this reason. I do not know where the memo to Wolff is published. I cannot find references to this in the Karl Wolff biography Der Adjutant. The existence of Salon Kitty is not in doubt. The effectiveness within the Nazi intelligence gathering is certainly questioned and classified as "a modern spy fantasy". The Berliner Morgenpost published an article on Sex unterm Hakenkreuz (2004). In this article it is mentioned: Das Bordell hat es zwar gegeben, die dort beschäftigten Frauen lieferten vielleicht Berichte an die Polizei - alles weitere über den "Salon Kitty" aber dürfte Erfindung sein, gespeist aus historischem Halbwissen, schmieriger Fantasie und Analogien zu den Methoden jüngerer Geheimdienste. Allerdings sind seit der Implosion der Stasi 1990 keine Spuren dieses "einmaligen Archivs" aufgetaucht. Von den angeblich umfangreichen Abschriften hat nie jemand auch nur eine Originalseite gesehen. Wahrscheinlich haben sie nie existiert, ebenso wenig wie eine "geheime Abhörzentrale" im Keller der Giesebrechtstraße 11. The Berliner Morgenpost in this article seems to confirm that the whole Salon Kitty set-up was probably more idealitistic fantasy than reality. If anything, the Salon Kitty idea (which came from Heydrich) again confirms that when it came to the spying game Heydrich was far from the specialist some considered him to be. jv

[DennisW]

While I can't find it at the moment, Wolff's list come from the files of the National Archives. As far as I know, it's never been published but without a source it doesn't amount to much. Just one of those random pages one comes across in research.
I think the truth about Kitty lies somewhere between the Morgenpost and Norden/Naujocks.
It would be interesting to hear froom someone who's researched the PRO files on this subject.

[guywalters]

I'm a little too busy to type/scan the entire entry, but Schellenberg writes about Salon Kitty in his memoirs. Apparently the brothel was Heydrich's idea, but it was established by Schellenberg, who found the idea a little distasteful. He got Nebe to scour europe looking for suitably classy prostitutes. According to Schellenberg, Heydrich used any info gleaned against Ribbentrop. Ciano visited. So did Heydrich, who claimed that Schellenberg forgot to turn off the mics when he was there, which Schellenberg denied. Sorry this is in haste. I'll scan the two pages in if anybody wants.

Best

Guy

[ohrdruf]

The full story of the setting up of "Salon Kitty" (front name "Pension Schroeder") by Heydrich with the assistance of Schellenberg and Nebe (who recruited the sixteen girls, all linguists in the accepted sense) is also recounted in Mario Dederichs book HEYDRICH: DAS GESICHT DES BOESEN (publ Piper 2003, ISBN 3-492-04543-x) at pages 168/169, but he relies on Schellenberg and Kersten as his only sources.

The address was Giesebrechtstrasse 11. Felix Kersten, Himmler's masseur, mentions the establishment in reported conversations with Heydrich who was thinking of setting up a similar place for homosexuals.

[DennisW]

I have just returned from the National Archives in London where I did not find the slightest hint of Salon Kitty. I am not denying that the brothel existed as it is cited on a list of about six or seven Berlin brothels recommended to Wolff by Himmler, but it does not carry any special significance.
Given the absence of any documentary evidence, I have to conclude that Salon Kitty as an instrument of RSHA intelligence operations is the stuff of legends.
Can anyone prove otherwise?

[jv]

I have just returned from the National Archives in London where I did not find the slightest hint of Salon Kitty. I am not denying that the brothel existed as it is cited on a list of about six or seven Berlin brothels recommended to Wolff by Himmler, but it does not carry any special significance.
Given the absence of any documentary evidence, I have to conclude that Salon Kitty as an instrument of RSHA intelligence operations is the stuff of legends.
Can anyone prove otherwise?

Hi Dennis,
You may also wish to look into French sources, such as Andre Brissaud, who has written about the Nazi Secret Service. In his book, Les Agents de Lucifer, I found this photo of the inner court of Salon Kitty with the entrance to the cellar (left) from where the listening devices were operated. In the notes Brissaud claims to have sighted Kripo and Gestapo reports on the operation of Salon Kitty. There are three letters between Heydrich and Schellenberg regarding Salon Kitty (copies of which are held at the Institut fuer Zeitgeschichte in Munich). Kitty Schmidt was interviewed by Heinrich Fraenkel after the war (see note in the biography Heinrich Himmler). Ribbentrop was a frequent visitor, but Goebbels only came once. Neither Himmler, Goering, Hess nor Bormann visited Salon Kitty according to Kitty Schmidt. This may assist in finding some more information on Salon Kitty. jv

[Vince Gratz]

This message is for David EM,

You mention

I have a picture of Kitty Schmidt - the owner, and some pics of the brothel, ( no action - sorry ) I will post them this weekend - I need to re-load the scanner driver at the moment, but yes it did exist. I understand Count Ciano was a good customer.
cheers

Would it be possible to email the photos of Kitty and some pics of the brothel? Thanks very much,

Vince Gratzer
[email protected]

[Dieter Zinke]

Would it be possible to email the photos of Kitty and some pics of the brothel?
Vince Gratzer
vgratzer@ .... .com

Vince,

not only you alone and exclusively but all members of our forum want to see these pics


Dieter Z., mod.

[Vince Gratz]

Does anyone know how to contact Australian David E M directly about the Salon Kitty photos? His post about them was in 2002 so possibly he doesn't frequent the Axis Forum regularly...

Thanks,
Vince

[Marcus]

Does anyone know how to contact Australian David E M directly about the Salon Kitty photos? His post about them was in 2002 so possibly he doesn't frequent the Axis Forum regularly...

Thanks,
Vince

David E M last visited the forum yesterday so that should not be an issue.

/Marcus