My Schutzpolizei Photo Album

Discussions on all aspects of the SS and Polizei. Hosted by Andrey.
User avatar
jarek_g
Member
Posts: 275
Joined: 21 Jul 2003 15:47
Location: Warsaw, Poland

My Schutzpolizei Photo Album

Post by jarek_g » 29 Nov 2005 20:54

stcamp,
City from your album this not Rzesnow but Rzeszow in occupied Poland (Generalgouvernement). From 1941 renamed on Reichenberg.
Bestreg.
Jarek

User avatar
stcamp
In memoriam
Posts: 1764
Joined: 13 Jan 2003 16:43
Location: USA - Virginia

Post by stcamp » 30 Nov 2005 15:32

Hello. Thank you for the spelling correction. By any chance do you know the correct spelling for image 46a? Is it Wnirkfeld? And is image48a Pfingstein?

Regards,
Steve

Mark V.
Member
Posts: 1508
Joined: 22 Apr 2002 20:50
Location: Ljubljana, Slovenia

Post by Mark V. » 30 Nov 2005 18:20

Excellent pictures, Steve.
stcamp wrote:Hello. Thank you for the spelling correction. By any chance do you know the correct spelling for image 46a? Is it Wnirkfeld? And is image48a Pfingstein?
How about -

Gurkfeld - Krško (like Novo Mesto in SE Slovenia)

and

Pfingsten 1944 - Pentecost 1944

User avatar
stcamp
In memoriam
Posts: 1764
Joined: 13 Jan 2003 16:43
Location: USA - Virginia

Post by stcamp » 01 Dec 2005 15:10

Thank you for the spelling clarifications. The Holocaust Museum has the War Diary for this battalion so I am going to walk over and print the parts that relate to the pictures and translate them. When I do I am thinking of posting the originals and my translation. This way I can reveal to everyone how poor my German is. :)

Regards,
Steve

nickterry
Member
Posts: 523
Joined: 16 Jan 2006 23:20
Location: Bristol

Re: My SchutzPolizei Photo Album

Post by nickterry » 27 Jan 2006 22:32

Hi Steve,

definitely not Battalion 322. That went pretty much direct from Vienna ca. 19.6.41 to the east. I read it as Rszeszow aka Reichshof, Batl 303 was stationed there in 2.41. That battalion joined Pol.Regt Sued and took part in Babi Yar.

Jaslo like Rszeszow was in the Krakau district of the Generalgouvernement, west of Warsaw, so it's possible also that the policeman was with a unit that stayed put - like Batl 111.

Novo mesto seems to be in Slovenia according to the instant Google response. It's quite possible indeed very likely that your chap was transferred from unit to unit - I would be surprised if he stayed with the same one the entire time.

Nick

User avatar
stcamp
In memoriam
Posts: 1764
Joined: 13 Jan 2003 16:43
Location: USA - Virginia

Post by stcamp » 27 Jan 2006 23:22

Hi Nick,

Wasn't it unusual to be transferred from unit to unit? The Germans I thought liked to keep the same men together. Also he is wearing a Top Sargeant stipe in 1944. Unlikely to move someone like that?

Babi-yar. No wonder he aged so much.

In buying these and I have a few other smaller sets the seller never knows where they got it originally or anymore information about it. Not really a suprise I guess.

Regards,
Steve

nickterry
Member
Posts: 523
Joined: 16 Jan 2006 23:20
Location: Bristol

Post by nickterry » 28 Jan 2006 00:48

if the man was a senior NCO, then the chances were good he could have been promoted out of an original unit and transferred to a newer (or understrength) one. Certainly there were huge transfers during the expansion process which created the 300-series battalions. I have seen some indications of further transfers in 1942-3, especially in relation to the reformations of some regiments destroyed in the Don bend. Regt Sued became Regt 10 and wasn't affected by that per se, but it might well have had to provide cadres for reformed units. The same kind of process affected the Wehrmacht all the time - at best someone might stay within a formation raised from the same Wehrkreis.

the simple answer is, I can't identify a battalion that would have been in Krakau district 19.6.41 and then in Slovenia in 1944. Yes, Batl 322 went to Serbia in 1942- but I don't believe it went north for an operation to Slovenia.

User avatar
stcamp
In memoriam
Posts: 1764
Joined: 13 Jan 2003 16:43
Location: USA - Virginia

Post by stcamp » 28 Jan 2006 01:41

Thank you Nick,

Yes, that makes sense. Cadre, especially as he was politically reliable. He was sent from Germany to Austria, probably as cadre.

I appreciate your taking the time to look.

Regards,

Steve

User avatar
stcamp
In memoriam
Posts: 1764
Joined: 13 Jan 2003 16:43
Location: USA - Virginia

Post by stcamp » 28 Jan 2006 03:58

I think you solved it!

I think he served with the 303 PB for his entire time. Why?

Because almost every Pol. Btl. was destroyed by late 1943 or early 1944.
Yet he is still alive and well in May/June of 1944 and in Novo Mesto,
Slovenia. PB 303 fits for 1941 and it also works for 1944.

From:http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=90


But when Partisans disperse they do not stay dispersed, so the Germans were forced to conduct a supplemental operation between 19 March and 7 April 1945, which proved to be the final operation against Tito's 9th Corps. Four combat groups were organized along the perimeter of the area now occupied by the Partisans, with the task of bringing the 9th Corps to battle by gradually advancing in unison toward the center, and thereby reducing the size of the area under their control. This was the standard German method of cleansing a Partisan-infested area, and it was never significantly changed during the course of the war. To the west, along the line Idrija-Reka-Grahovo-Podbrdo, Combat Group Blank was assembled with major elements of the 10th and 15th SS-Police Regiments, II./1. S.F.K. Rgt., II./4. S.F.K. Rgt., 21st SS-Police Reconnnaissance Co., SS-Police Company "Schmidt" and an artillery battery from the LXXXXVII Army Corps. This force was later joined on 4 April by the 2nd and 3rd S.F.K. Regiments, and 1,500 men from the Chetnik 502 Lika Corps. The second group, under Police major Dr. Dippelhofer, consisted of the Ljubljana SS NCO School, Slovene Domobrans, Chetniks and a 1,200- man Russian ROA unit. This group was deployed to the southeast along the line Idrija-Škofja Loka. The northern assault group, 4,500 men belonging to the 13th, 17th
and 28th SS-Police Regiments, were formed up along the road between Podbrdo and Škofja Loka, while a special assault force from the 14th Ukrainian SS Division was concentrated along the northeastern side of the perimeter.

From: The German Police - Appendix M

The 10 SS Reg. (PB 45, 303, 214) was the only Reg. to survive intact out of the 5 Pol. Reg.
assigned to Kampfgruppe Pruetzmann. In June 1944 it was withdrawn and posted to Slovenia.
(August). One foto has him in Novo Mesto, Slovenia at Pentacost 1944. Pentacost is 50 days after Easter so that would be fairly close.

From Novo Mesto to Podbrdo is approx. 100 miles. See attached map. The Red star on the map is Podbrdo.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
stcamp
In memoriam
Posts: 1764
Joined: 13 Jan 2003 16:43
Location: USA - Virginia

Post by stcamp » 28 Jan 2006 05:12

The loose fotos place him in Rszeszow in 1/26/41.
Jaslo in 6/19/41

Pol. Btl. 303 in Sept. 1941 killed 18,000 Jews in Zhitomir. Zhitomir is not far from Jaslo and Rszeszow.

Pol. Btl. 303 and 45 kill 33,771 Jews at Babi-Yar.

Source: Uniforms, Organization, and History of the German Police. by Angolia and Taylor. Vol. 1
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Mark V.
Member
Posts: 1508
Joined: 22 Apr 2002 20:50
Location: Ljubljana, Slovenia

Post by Mark V. » 29 Jan 2006 00:36

stcamp wrote:I think you solved it!

I think he served with the 303 PB for his entire time. Why?

Because almost every Pol. Btl. was destroyed by late 1943 or early 1944.
Yet he is still alive and well in May/June of 1944 and in Novo Mesto,
Slovenia. PB 303 fits for 1941 and it also works for 1944.

From:http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=90


But when Partisans disperse they do not stay dispersed, so the Germans were forced to conduct a supplemental operation between 19 March and 7 April 1945, which proved to be the final operation against Tito's 9th Corps. Four combat groups were organized along the perimeter of the area now occupied by the Partisans, with the task of bringing the 9th Corps to battle by gradually advancing in unison toward the center, and thereby reducing the size of the area under their control. This was the standard German method of cleansing a Partisan-infested area, and it was never significantly changed during the course of the war. To the west, along the line Idrija-Reka-Grahovo-Podbrdo, Combat Group Blank was assembled with major elements of the 10th and 15th SS-Police Regiments, II./1. S.F.K. Rgt., II./4. S.F.K. Rgt., 21st SS-Police Reconnnaissance Co., SS-Police Company "Schmidt" and an artillery battery from the LXXXXVII Army Corps. This force was later joined on 4 April by the 2nd and 3rd S.F.K. Regiments, and 1,500 men from the Chetnik 502 Lika Corps. The second group, under Police major Dr. Dippelhofer, consisted of the Ljubljana SS NCO School, Slovene Domobrans, Chetniks and a 1,200- man Russian ROA unit. This group was deployed to the southeast along the line Idrija-Škofja Loka. The northern assault group, 4,500 men belonging to the 13th, 17th
and 28th SS-Police Regiments, were formed up along the road between Podbrdo and Škofja Loka, while a special assault force from the 14th Ukrainian SS Division was concentrated along the northeastern side of the perimeter.

From: The German Police - Appendix M

The 10 SS Reg. (PB 45, 303, 214) was the only Reg. to survive intact out of the 5 Pol. Reg.
assigned to Kampfgruppe Pruetzmann. In June 1944 it was withdrawn and posted to Slovenia.
(August). One foto has him in Novo Mesto, Slovenia at Pentacost 1944. Pentacost is 50 days after Easter so that would be fairly close.

From Novo Mesto to Podbrdo is approx. 100 miles. See attached map. The Red star on the map is Podbrdo.
Hi steve!

That's a very nice piece of research. Unfortunately it doesn't seem likely that SS-Pol.Rgt.10 was ever in Novo Mesto.

I checked up a few things.

In 1944 Easter came on 26 March, which means the Pentacost must have been on 4 May. This pretty much rules out the SS-Pol.Rgt.10. Furthermore the only German unit in this (the SEE) part of the Province of Ljubljana, at that time frame, was SS-Pol.Rgt.14, which had from late January 1944 it's 1st battalion stationed in Novo Mesto together with two companies of Slowenische Landeswehr and 13.Pol.Pz.Kp. Novo Mesto was a strong-point, referred to as Stützpunkt Rudolfwerth, surrounded by partisan held territory and used as a stagging area for attacks on the so-called liberated territories. SS-Pol.Rgt.10 on the other hand, while close nearby, didn't operate in Province of Ljubljana part of the Operatzionszone Adriatische Küstenland but mostly in Provinz Görz and Trieste (to the W of Ljubljana), for better understanding here's a map of OZAK from Stefano Di Giusto's website:

Image
http://www.panzer-ozak.it/description_eng.htm

User avatar
stcamp
In memoriam
Posts: 1764
Joined: 13 Jan 2003 16:43
Location: USA - Virginia

Post by stcamp » 29 Jan 2006 05:36

Hello Mark V,

Thank you for that information.

I am still inclined to believe he was in a battalion attached to the 10th SS. Why? In 1940 the fotos show him on a field exercise in Austria where I believe based on the fotos he had been stationed since 1932. The 314 PB was an Austrian PB and I think the 303 was also.

The fotos show him marching a column of civilians in Rzeszow in 1941 and in Jaslo later that year. Another foto shows him with a group of soldiers, one of which is wearing a company top sargeant chevron. The back says Krško. What looks to be officers are studying a map. That would make it a full battalion action. It is probably 1942/43.

All this takes place in what is Podkarpackie Province? The regiment you mentioned was composed of Polizei drawn from Berlin and was not in the area above during that time period.

I know a number of regiments were combined into a battlegroup and fought at Brody in early 1944. The 10th must of stayed in that area as they were fighting a large partisan action Nth of Novo Mesto in the early spring of 1945.

Would you know what Polizei Btl. was in or around Jaslo and Rzeszow in 1941? Krsko in 1942/1943? Where exactly was the 10th SS Pol. Reg. in 1944? Everything I can find says this was where Pol. Reg. South/SS Reg. 10 was.

Regards,
Steve

Mark V.
Member
Posts: 1508
Joined: 22 Apr 2002 20:50
Location: Ljubljana, Slovenia

Post by Mark V. » 29 Jan 2006 14:36

Hi Steve!

I can only comment the deployment of the police units in Slovenia.

res.Pol.Btl.72 was from 1941-42 stationed in Krsko, the battalion was used in the deportation of Slovene population from the area and it also participated in several anti-partisan operations in NNE Slovenia. After 1942 till the end of the war the area was a safe zone so the battalion's presence wasn't needed anymore, it was moved to N Slovenia and reorganized as I./SS-Pol.Rgt.19. In late fall 1943 it was sent to Novo Mesto, where it was in late January 1944 replaced by I./SS-Pol.Rgt.14.

SS-Pol.Rgt.10

Here's the list of regiment's actions from summer 1944 till May 1945. Use the map bellow for better orientation.

On 12 July 1944 the regiment arrived in Slovenia and was deployed in the area Trieste-Gorizia-Idrija.
July-August: participates in the anti-partisan operation in Trnovo forrest/Cerkno (red line)
October: »Op. Grünewald Max« - Trnovo forrest (blue line)
December: large scale anti-partisan operation (green line)
February-March 1945: »Op.Rübezahl I.-III.« (light blue)
March-April 1945: »Op. Frühlingsanfang/Op. Winterende« (orange/black)
April: deployed in Trnovo forrest
April/May: retreats to Gorizia
Image

re SS-Pol.Rgt.14: I have the regiment listed as destroyed in 1943 in the Don bend and later reformed.

PF
Member
Posts: 2127
Joined: 27 Oct 2004 13:19
Location: USA

Re: My SchutzPolizei Photo Album

Post by PF » 06 Jan 2011 01:35

Any SS or NSDAP Numbers for orginal owner?

User avatar
stcamp
In memoriam
Posts: 1764
Joined: 13 Jan 2003 16:43
Location: USA - Virginia

Re: My SchutzPolizei Photo Album

Post by stcamp » 06 Jan 2011 14:19

No. Nothing unfortunately.

Return to “The Phil Nix SS & Polizei section”