Has anyone got a complete list of which Polizei battalions that had the designation "Reserve"? I have the below so far:
Reserve Polizei-Bataillon 2
Reserve Polizei-Bataillon 9
Reserve Polizei-Bataillon 11
Reserve Polizei-Bataillon 12
Reserve Polizei-Bataillon 22
Reserve Polizei-Bataillon 32
Reserve Polizei-Bataillon 45
Reserve Polizei-Bataillon 53
Reserve Polizei-Bataillon 61
Reserve Polizei-Bataillon 65
Reserve Polizei-Bataillon 69
Reserve Polizei-Bataillon 82
Reserve Polizei-Bataillon 101
Reserve Polizei-Bataillon 105
Reserve Polizei-Bataillon 131
Reserve Polizei-Bataillon Klettau
Reserve Polizei-Bataillon Leipzig
The above are from the Mehner book but sadly it seems many books do not make any difference between reserve and non-reserve units.
Thanks.
/Marcus
Reserve Polizei-Bataillone
Starting in Oct. 1939 over 150 Pol.Btl. were raised from the German Police.
The first 84 Pol.Btl. were raised on a regional basis.
pg 308/316 Uniforms, Organization, History of the German Police Vol. 1 by Angolia & Taylor
A great book but no mention I can find of which were reserves. Interestingly Tessin only counts 110 battalions.
In Ordinary Men the author says, actually infers, that all battalions raised from 1940 on were Reserve Pol. battalions with the exception the 251-256 series, and the 301-325 series. That would account for 31 regular battalions.
In "Hitlers Willing Executioners" by Daniel Golhagen
He states that if a battalion had career policemen it was a regular battalion. Another distinction was age. Battalion with older men were in the 301-325 series and were known as WachMeisterBattalion's. Police battalions numbered under 200 were usually reserve battalions. Yet a number of 300 level battalion were also reserves. The manpower composition originally determined if they were Regular or Reserve. He decided that these designations were meaningless because as the war went on the compositions changed so much as to render the designations useless.
Regards,
Steve
Regards,
Steve[quote][/quote]
The first 84 Pol.Btl. were raised on a regional basis.
pg 308/316 Uniforms, Organization, History of the German Police Vol. 1 by Angolia & Taylor
A great book but no mention I can find of which were reserves. Interestingly Tessin only counts 110 battalions.
In Ordinary Men the author says, actually infers, that all battalions raised from 1940 on were Reserve Pol. battalions with the exception the 251-256 series, and the 301-325 series. That would account for 31 regular battalions.
In "Hitlers Willing Executioners" by Daniel Golhagen
He states that if a battalion had career policemen it was a regular battalion. Another distinction was age. Battalion with older men were in the 301-325 series and were known as WachMeisterBattalion's. Police battalions numbered under 200 were usually reserve battalions. Yet a number of 300 level battalion were also reserves. The manpower composition originally determined if they were Regular or Reserve. He decided that these designations were meaningless because as the war went on the compositions changed so much as to render the designations useless.
Regards,
Steve
Regards,
Steve[quote][/quote]
-
Georges JEROME
- Financial supporter
- Posts: 9965
- Joined: 10 Mar 2002, 14:04
- Location: France
- Contact:
on august 1940 a report of Daluege state that 60 on 101 pol bat were reserve bataillons = 91 000 reserve policemen for 119 108 active policemen not mobilised.
the reserve police bat left the "reserve" designation when they were incorporated into the Polizei regiment in 1942 :
Res Pol bat 11 became I/pol regt 2
Res Pol bat 22 became III/pol rgt 2
Res pol bat 61 became I/ Pol regt 9
in the german post war trials against war crimes there is a number of case which mentions of Reserve Pol bat but not a full list.
In my article upon Police bataillons in action in Lorraine in 1940 I mention that the 66e Polizeibataillon from Darmstadt is 16 officers and 540 NCO / 2/3 were reserve (from report PB 66 to BdO Lothringen Saarpfalz 8/40).
JG
the reserve police bat left the "reserve" designation when they were incorporated into the Polizei regiment in 1942 :
Res Pol bat 11 became I/pol regt 2
Res Pol bat 22 became III/pol rgt 2
Res pol bat 61 became I/ Pol regt 9
in the german post war trials against war crimes there is a number of case which mentions of Reserve Pol bat but not a full list.
In my article upon Police bataillons in action in Lorraine in 1940 I mention that the 66e Polizeibataillon from Darmstadt is 16 officers and 540 NCO / 2/3 were reserve (from report PB 66 to BdO Lothringen Saarpfalz 8/40).
JG
Reserve Or Not Reserve
I'm no so sure this is an important issue. In my years of research, I have always relied on one published source for the absolutely unimpeachably correct name for German units:
Kannapin, Norbert, Die deutsche Feldpostübersicht 1939-1945. 3 Bde (I – III) (Osnabrück, 1980-82).
The unit names entered in Kannapin, along with their frequent changes, represent the names given to the Heeresfeldpostmeister by the Organisationsabteilung of the Heer, Luftwaffe, Marine, Orpo, Waffen-SS, and all of the other branches and agencies of the Third Reich. Regulations prescribed that these names be correct. Anyone who has seen unit formation orders written by the various Organisationsabteilungen will know that the names in the FpÜ match those in the formation order, because it is a copy of that order that was sent over to the Heeresfeldpostmeister so the new unit's name could be entered in the FpÜ. The name in the FpÜ had to match the name in the formation order.
So here is the punch line. I just randomly checked a dozen Polizeibataillon Feldpost numbers randomly taken from the single digit, double digit and triple digit battalion numbers and the term "Res." or "Reserve" was not used. That tells me that as far as the Orpo was concerned, the term "Reserve" was not part of a battalion's official name. It may have only been of significance within Orpo for administrative purposes. Edward Westermann's new book, Hitler's Police Battalions, doesn't make an issue of it either. Finally, the foundational work on the police battalions by Neufeldt, Huck and Tessin does not distinguish between reserve and non-reserve in its Section 23 Polizeibataillone (pp.96-100).
FWIW,
--Larry
I'm no so sure this is an important issue. In my years of research, I have always relied on one published source for the absolutely unimpeachably correct name for German units:
Kannapin, Norbert, Die deutsche Feldpostübersicht 1939-1945. 3 Bde (I – III) (Osnabrück, 1980-82).
The unit names entered in Kannapin, along with their frequent changes, represent the names given to the Heeresfeldpostmeister by the Organisationsabteilung of the Heer, Luftwaffe, Marine, Orpo, Waffen-SS, and all of the other branches and agencies of the Third Reich. Regulations prescribed that these names be correct. Anyone who has seen unit formation orders written by the various Organisationsabteilungen will know that the names in the FpÜ match those in the formation order, because it is a copy of that order that was sent over to the Heeresfeldpostmeister so the new unit's name could be entered in the FpÜ. The name in the FpÜ had to match the name in the formation order.
So here is the punch line. I just randomly checked a dozen Polizeibataillon Feldpost numbers randomly taken from the single digit, double digit and triple digit battalion numbers and the term "Res." or "Reserve" was not used. That tells me that as far as the Orpo was concerned, the term "Reserve" was not part of a battalion's official name. It may have only been of significance within Orpo for administrative purposes. Edward Westermann's new book, Hitler's Police Battalions, doesn't make an issue of it either. Finally, the foundational work on the police battalions by Neufeldt, Huck and Tessin does not distinguish between reserve and non-reserve in its Section 23 Polizeibataillone (pp.96-100).
FWIW,
--Larry
I thought about it and Larry's post makes sense. The reserve tag for a Order Police battalion was more administrative than an actual part of the name. Similar to a German infantry division that was created with recalled reserve officers and a levy of men or a wave. Some divisions were first wave, third wave, etc. but that was not part of the unit name. The reserve designation meant for the most part a battalion consisted of older men.
In 1940 the Police called up their second and biggest wave. There was another smaller wave in 1942 when cities like Nurnberg mobilized their battalion. After July 1942 the battalions became part of regiments. Police battalions were usually recruited from a specific geographical location but that became impossible due to the fact that available manpower for Police Battalions was already exhausted by 1941 in certain areas.
Also I have found that the handful of authors who have written about the German Police battalions often contradict each other. I have that this is especially true when they write about the 300 series of battalions. Some claim they were mostly old, and poorly trained. Yet another author writes that they were especially chosen NS warriors.
Regards,
Steve
In 1940 the Police called up their second and biggest wave. There was another smaller wave in 1942 when cities like Nurnberg mobilized their battalion. After July 1942 the battalions became part of regiments. Police battalions were usually recruited from a specific geographical location but that became impossible due to the fact that available manpower for Police Battalions was already exhausted by 1941 in certain areas.
Also I have found that the handful of authors who have written about the German Police battalions often contradict each other. I have that this is especially true when they write about the 300 series of battalions. Some claim they were mostly old, and poorly trained. Yet another author writes that they were especially chosen NS warriors.
Regards,
Steve
-
Georges JEROME
- Financial supporter
- Posts: 9965
- Joined: 10 Mar 2002, 14:04
- Location: France
- Contact:
I agree with Larry and stcamp upon the difference between Pol bat and reserve Pol bat. In the report of Kdr der Pol bat 63, 66 and 122 from august 1940 never mention of reserve.
Therefore in a OoB of Police bat attached to HSSPF in 1941, there is mention of status of police bat : Reserve Polizei Bat or Polizei bat.
JG
Therefore in a OoB of Police bat attached to HSSPF in 1941, there is mention of status of police bat : Reserve Polizei Bat or Polizei bat.
JG
-
Peter J. Hertel
- Member
- Posts: 646
- Joined: 12 Mar 2002, 23:13
- Location: Vancouver, Canada
Yes, Peter, but only in change entries posted between 15.2.42 and 30.7.42. As I said, I didn't check them all. Do you suspect the Organisationsabteilung of the Ordnungspolizei suddenly decided to start making the distinction between Reserve and non-Reserve Polizei-Btle. for some particular reason? It's all very strange, especially in view of the fact that most of the Polizei-Btle. were incorporated into the new Polizei-Regimenter beginning in mid-1942 and lost their separate identity. Personally, I think there may have been a turn-over of department heads in the Org.Abt./Orpo at about that time and the "new guy" just decided arbitrarily to put the "Res." into the official titles. The fact that it wasn't done before that leads me to believe, as previously, that it was an administrative matter that had little to do with the name of the unit.Peter J. Hertel wrote:Hi Larry,
I'm sorry to say, you are not right about the fact that there is no res. or reserve mentioned the three volume set "Die Deutsche Feldostübersicht 1939 - 1945.
Look at page 383 in volume II, under FpNr. 40 848; page 384 FpNr. 40 937 and on page 347 FpNr. 38 739.
Peter
But thanks for pointing this out.
--Larry
Re: Reserve Polizei-Bataillone
hallo all,
I rise this old thread to make a question: Is there a chance to know something about these Polizei reserve units?
- 54. Polizei Reserve
- Reserve Wachkompanie V
- 32. Polizei Reserve
I writes as these are found on a Polziei Dienstpass
Many thanks in advance
I rise this old thread to make a question: Is there a chance to know something about these Polizei reserve units?
- 54. Polizei Reserve
- Reserve Wachkompanie V
- 32. Polizei Reserve
I writes as these are found on a Polziei Dienstpass
Many thanks in advance
Re: Reserve Polizei-Bataillone
Joda -
If you just need a paragraph or so of general information on individual units, there are a few published sources but these are mostly 40 to 50 years old now. One of several exceptions would be:
Campbell, Stephen. Police Battalions of the Third Reich. Atglen (PA): Schiffer Publishing, 2007. ISBN: 978-0-7643-2771-1. Hb. Dj. 155p. Illus. Appendices. Endnotes. Bibliography. Index.
Larry
If you just need a paragraph or so of general information on individual units, there are a few published sources but these are mostly 40 to 50 years old now. One of several exceptions would be:
Campbell, Stephen. Police Battalions of the Third Reich. Atglen (PA): Schiffer Publishing, 2007. ISBN: 978-0-7643-2771-1. Hb. Dj. 155p. Illus. Appendices. Endnotes. Bibliography. Index.
Larry
Re: Reserve Polizei-Bataillone
Thank you Larry,
I'll check for this book.
My interest is their duty during WW2; I see many reserve units turned to be active battalions especially for anti partisan duties.
it is interesting to know something about these 3 units.
I suppose their main role was Ordnungspolizei units is it right?
I'll check for this book.
My interest is their duty during WW2; I see many reserve units turned to be active battalions especially for anti partisan duties.
it is interesting to know something about these 3 units.
I suppose their main role was Ordnungspolizei units is it right?
Re: Reserve Polizei-Bataillone
Well,
Res.Polizei-Btl. 32 was formed at the end of 1940/beginning of 1941 using personnel from in and around Berlin. It was exclusively employed on the central sector of the Eastern Front. Apr 41 in Prague/Czechoslovakia. Aug 41 assigned to Polizei-Rgt. Mitte in the Slutsk area. Sep 41 sent to Lvov where it shot at least 1,000 people who had been rounded up. Dec 41 transferred to Minsk. 23 Jan 42 in action against Soviet paratroops. Apr 42 sent to Beresina to help relieve German forces encircled by partisans. 16 May 42 ordered disbanded due to heavy losses with remaining personnel sent to Polizei-Btl. 308 deployed along the front between Smolensk - Yukhnov and Bryansk.
That's all there is in the Campbell book. There was no Polizei-Batallion with the number 54. There is no mention in the book of a Res.Wachkp. V.
Best wishes,
Larry
Res.Polizei-Btl. 32 was formed at the end of 1940/beginning of 1941 using personnel from in and around Berlin. It was exclusively employed on the central sector of the Eastern Front. Apr 41 in Prague/Czechoslovakia. Aug 41 assigned to Polizei-Rgt. Mitte in the Slutsk area. Sep 41 sent to Lvov where it shot at least 1,000 people who had been rounded up. Dec 41 transferred to Minsk. 23 Jan 42 in action against Soviet paratroops. Apr 42 sent to Beresina to help relieve German forces encircled by partisans. 16 May 42 ordered disbanded due to heavy losses with remaining personnel sent to Polizei-Btl. 308 deployed along the front between Smolensk - Yukhnov and Bryansk.
That's all there is in the Campbell book. There was no Polizei-Batallion with the number 54. There is no mention in the book of a Res.Wachkp. V.
Best wishes,
Larry
Re: Reserve Polizei-Bataillone
Thank you very much Larry.
Here is the unit: it looks the soldier was in Res Pol 32 in 1943-44... perhaps maintained their unit number also if personnel was sent to Btl 308?
Here is the unit: it looks the soldier was in Res Pol 32 in 1943-44... perhaps maintained their unit number also if personnel was sent to Btl 308?
Re: Reserve Polizei-Bataillone
Your attachment says:
32. Polizei-Revier / Revier-Einzeldienst / 1.11.43 / 1.8.44
This translates as:
32nd Police Precinct / Precinct Individual Service / from 1.11.43 to 1.8.44.
In other words he was a regular policeman assigned to the 32nd Precinct in a city somewhere, almost certainly in Germany. He was a beat cop who wore a police uniform and walked the streets in his precinct. He was not in a Polizei-Bataillon serving at the front or in one of the German-occupied countries.
Larry
32. Polizei-Revier / Revier-Einzeldienst / 1.11.43 / 1.8.44
This translates as:
32nd Police Precinct / Precinct Individual Service / from 1.11.43 to 1.8.44.
In other words he was a regular policeman assigned to the 32nd Precinct in a city somewhere, almost certainly in Germany. He was a beat cop who wore a police uniform and walked the streets in his precinct. He was not in a Polizei-Bataillon serving at the front or in one of the German-occupied countries.
Larry