I don't know...
Although a good base of ops for offensives (Balkans 1941) the flat terrain of the Pannonia plain makes it less of a defense position, especially when the soviets had plenty of troops and atrillery. Urban combat did however show the stuff of the (remanining) hungarian troops in 1944.
Non-Aryan Axis Nations?
The Nazi racial fairy tales only applied to German(ic) people. Germany, Ausria, Luxembourg, Belgium, Holland, Denmark, etc.. etc.. Even though England (Anglo-Saxon) are Germanic, ethnically speaking, Hitler did not consider them part of Germany, like he did with Belgium, et al.
Most Europeans, other than Basques and other very small communities in Norway, come from Central Asia.. An area around Afghanistan.. As Central Asia got dry periods, the tribes had to migrate to better areas, like Europe. They migrated in groups, and spread all over Europe. Their languages are all related, since they are all related. Some of these migrants, but not all, called themselves "Aryans". The name meant "the nobles" or something of that sort; and I cannot remember the root of the exact root of the word "ar-ir-yan-". Anyhow, these people are your modern day Persians and Medes of Iran and the Western Asian Kurdlands. It still means the same in Iranian, and that is where the name "Iran" comes from. The name somehow got associated with all Indo-Europeans, and the language tree that we know as "Indo-European" was called "Indo-Aryan" language tree.
When the Nazis came to power, they used the term to sescribe their image of Nordic-Germans. Unfortunately, they popularized the term "Aryan" to mean "Nordic German" with such and such pigmentation, such and such hair colour, such and such hips, nose, skull... etc etc..
And so ethno-linguists and linguists had to drop using the term "Indo-Aryan" as the term "Aryan" now mostly has the Nazi meaning, and not the relevant historical one of the tribes that settled in Iran and started invading their neighbours (India and Mesopotamia)
Most Europeans, other than Basques and other very small communities in Norway, come from Central Asia.. An area around Afghanistan.. As Central Asia got dry periods, the tribes had to migrate to better areas, like Europe. They migrated in groups, and spread all over Europe. Their languages are all related, since they are all related. Some of these migrants, but not all, called themselves "Aryans". The name meant "the nobles" or something of that sort; and I cannot remember the root of the exact root of the word "ar-ir-yan-". Anyhow, these people are your modern day Persians and Medes of Iran and the Western Asian Kurdlands. It still means the same in Iranian, and that is where the name "Iran" comes from. The name somehow got associated with all Indo-Europeans, and the language tree that we know as "Indo-European" was called "Indo-Aryan" language tree.
When the Nazis came to power, they used the term to sescribe their image of Nordic-Germans. Unfortunately, they popularized the term "Aryan" to mean "Nordic German" with such and such pigmentation, such and such hair colour, such and such hips, nose, skull... etc etc..
And so ethno-linguists and linguists had to drop using the term "Indo-Aryan" as the term "Aryan" now mostly has the Nazi meaning, and not the relevant historical one of the tribes that settled in Iran and started invading their neighbours (India and Mesopotamia)
Nazi propaganda and race
Another myth the Nazis wanted the German people to believe was that they were a "pure race".This comes from one of the oldest books on Germany,written by Tacitus.Thinking the Germans were there since the begining of time,he described them as pure since they were untouched by Roman colonization.This made great propaganda but we all know how mistaken Tacitus was since he had no knowledge of any other peoples east of the Elbe.The hype about the blonde hair and all came from Niechtke,i think he was the one who wrote about the blonde blue eyed superhuman.Then you ve got the Ayran Myth and the Shang ri la which was popular at the time.This was all picked up and distorted by the Nazis for their benefit.They convinced everyone they were the direct decendants of the "aryans".People still believe it til this day! 
:roll:
I was under the impression that the Aryans were NOT all blonde with blue eyes,that they werent even all white for that matter.The only thing these central Asians had in common was their language.Marcus,I understand you not wanting to discuss race here but there are alot of people that think that Germans are the Aryans,or that Nordic looking people are aryans,remnants of Nazi propaganda/venom.If you ask me the term "Aryan" does not mean blonde and such.However many people dont realize that. Ken does a good job explaining this also.
:roll: I was under the impression that the Aryans were NOT all blonde with blue eyes,that they werent even all white for that matter.The only thing these central Asians had in common was their language.Marcus,I understand you not wanting to discuss race here but there are alot of people that think that Germans are the Aryans,or that Nordic looking people are aryans,remnants of Nazi propaganda/venom.If you ask me the term "Aryan" does not mean blonde and such.However many people dont realize that. Ken does a good job explaining this also.
Tiberius
I don't have the slightest idea who may be a guy named Nietchke writng about "blonde blue eyed superhuman". 
The philosopher and poet Friedrich Nietzsche(1844-1900) had written about the man who self-educates to surpass his human condition and become an Ubermensch("above-human"), an evolved being, above the usual human of his time. This is something with no connection to blond hair etc.
Aryan doesn't mean blonde etc. The Aryans/Indo-Europeans were composed of many groups of people living together and sharing common language and culture. They had different physical traits, but they were almost all members of the White race.
Many studies on Indo-Europeans had been done in Western Europe(mostly France) and USA, but they are a mostly a scientist-only issue, not usually regarded by the general (uneducated/layman) public, because they are embarrasing for the Hollyweird bastards, who hade made "Aryan" to be an ugly word.
Marija Gimbutas(1921-1994) had researched as archaeologist the primitive cultures of Europe.
http://www.webcom.com/gimbutas/
Another top researcher of the Indo-European history is Georges Dumezil.
http://www.entrelacs.tm.fr/entrelac/dume0055.htm
The entirety of the European peoples, excepting the Finns and Magyars, Basques, Turks, stem from the original Indo-European or Aryan source. This includes the Slavs and excludes the Jews.
~Regards,
Ovidius
PS To some members: do at least a few reading.
The philosopher and poet Friedrich Nietzsche(1844-1900) had written about the man who self-educates to surpass his human condition and become an Ubermensch("above-human"), an evolved being, above the usual human of his time. This is something with no connection to blond hair etc.
Aryan doesn't mean blonde etc. The Aryans/Indo-Europeans were composed of many groups of people living together and sharing common language and culture. They had different physical traits, but they were almost all members of the White race.
Many studies on Indo-Europeans had been done in Western Europe(mostly France) and USA, but they are a mostly a scientist-only issue, not usually regarded by the general (uneducated/layman) public, because they are embarrasing for the Hollyweird bastards, who hade made "Aryan" to be an ugly word.
Marija Gimbutas(1921-1994) had researched as archaeologist the primitive cultures of Europe.
http://www.webcom.com/gimbutas/
Another top researcher of the Indo-European history is Georges Dumezil.
http://www.entrelacs.tm.fr/entrelac/dume0055.htm
The entirety of the European peoples, excepting the Finns and Magyars, Basques, Turks, stem from the original Indo-European or Aryan source. This includes the Slavs and excludes the Jews.
~Regards,
Ovidius
PS To some members: do at least a few reading.
Re: Tiberius
At least he didn't spell it the abominable way Americans pronounce it "Knee-Chee".I don't have the slightest idea who may be a guy named Nietchke writng about "blonde blue eyed superhuman
Re: Tiberius
The entirety of the European peoples, excepting the Finns and Magyars, Basques, Turks, stem from the original Indo-European or Aryan source. This includes the Slavs and excludes the Jews.
~Regards,
Ovidius
PS To some members: do at least a few reading.[/quote]
Perhaps it should be mentioned, that language is by no means a reliable, or certain back-up for racial theories. Besides, the whole idea of the "Aryan source" is purely imaginal and a product of Nazi- propaganda. Finns, for example, don't differ genetically a lot from the Germans. But it is also quite impossible to argue about the origin of Europeans, since these events took place about 50 000 years before the present calendar. I am absolutely positive that no-one sending messages to this forum, including myself, possesses enough knowledge to make such claims about race. What comes to the term "Indo-European", it means the Indo-European languages, not race.
~Regards,
Ovidius
PS To some members: do at least a few reading.[/quote]
Perhaps it should be mentioned, that language is by no means a reliable, or certain back-up for racial theories. Besides, the whole idea of the "Aryan source" is purely imaginal and a product of Nazi- propaganda. Finns, for example, don't differ genetically a lot from the Germans. But it is also quite impossible to argue about the origin of Europeans, since these events took place about 50 000 years before the present calendar. I am absolutely positive that no-one sending messages to this forum, including myself, possesses enough knowledge to make such claims about race. What comes to the term "Indo-European", it means the Indo-European languages, not race.
"Race" is a social term, not a scientific one.
Just because someone has the same level of melanin (or lack thereof) in his skin as you do does not make that guy belong to your "race", and should you have different pigmentation levels does not make you "of different races".
You can have curly blond hair with dark red skin, and your own brother could have straight black hair and really pale skin.. but that doesn't mean that "you're of different races"
There's the human race, and many ethnicities based on language, region, culture and history.
About the ancient aryans.. writings said that they had light skin and dark hair.. But that really means nothing.
One more thing.. Norway and other Scandinavian countries (not denmark) had non-indo-european Nordic peoples. So figure that out.
Just because someone has the same level of melanin (or lack thereof) in his skin as you do does not make that guy belong to your "race", and should you have different pigmentation levels does not make you "of different races".
You can have curly blond hair with dark red skin, and your own brother could have straight black hair and really pale skin.. but that doesn't mean that "you're of different races"
There's the human race, and many ethnicities based on language, region, culture and history.
About the ancient aryans.. writings said that they had light skin and dark hair.. But that really means nothing.
One more thing.. Norway and other Scandinavian countries (not denmark) had non-indo-european Nordic peoples. So figure that out.
Most Europeans, whether they speak an Indo-European tongue or not, are descendants of those people who inhabited the continent before the so called Aryan invasions.
Only about 1/4 of our genes today comes from those Indo-Europeans. And most of us are very similar genetically. There are only two groups that differ significantly in Europe from all the rest, and they are the Lapps and the Greeks.
It's hard to tell what the Aryans looked like. But it seems most likely that they looked like many of the Near Eastern peoples of today, like the Kurds, Iraqis or Iranians, but probably with a higher incidence of blond hair and light eyes. We know for sure that they were moderately tall (average of about 170 for males) and very long headed (from back to front).
Here's a good link:
http://www.stats.ox.ac.uk/~macaulay/pap ... s_2000.pdf
The Nazis had a rough idea about all of the above. But they exaggerated the significance of it all. I just wonder how seriously Hitler took the subject. Was it just a tool to help him win the war?
I think it mattered to him. And I'm certain Himmler was obsessed with it.
Only about 1/4 of our genes today comes from those Indo-Europeans. And most of us are very similar genetically. There are only two groups that differ significantly in Europe from all the rest, and they are the Lapps and the Greeks.
It's hard to tell what the Aryans looked like. But it seems most likely that they looked like many of the Near Eastern peoples of today, like the Kurds, Iraqis or Iranians, but probably with a higher incidence of blond hair and light eyes. We know for sure that they were moderately tall (average of about 170 for males) and very long headed (from back to front).
Here's a good link:
http://www.stats.ox.ac.uk/~macaulay/pap ... s_2000.pdf
The Nazis had a rough idea about all of the above. But they exaggerated the significance of it all. I just wonder how seriously Hitler took the subject. Was it just a tool to help him win the war?
I think it mattered to him. And I'm certain Himmler was obsessed with it.
OK, I promise I will do some reading from now on. I can give you a hint as well: Maybe you should contemplate carefully, whether you are having too serious obsessions and fantasies about the Aryan race.Ovidius wrote:I see that a certain Jaeger has to do some reading, as I've suggested. For the beginning, to read my post:
The Aryans/Indo-Europeans were composed of many groups of people living together and sharing common language and culture. They had different physical traits
~Ovidius
