Croatians in Stalingrad

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GLADIVM
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Croatians in Stalingrad

#1

Post by GLADIVM » 17 Dec 2002, 07:40

I would have liked to post this message in the the thread about the Croatian regiment in Stalingrad but it has been locked would like to add a little bit on the subject , without having to dwell in the balkan animosities .

It seems that during the siege of Stalingrad some Croats officers , while fighting valiantly also had more mundane matters to attend , at least so says Anthony Beevor in his book Stalingrad at page 281 :

QUOTE " Perhaps the best indication of officers pessimism was the secret decision to send out all the german nurses , even before most of the wounded , to ensure that they never fell into russian hands .
Although great efforts were made to keep this secret , officers from the 369 th Croat Infantry Regiment , attached to the 100th Jager Division ,heard and lobbied the Luftwaffe to fly out their mistresses , disguised as nurses .
The Lieutenant whom they approched rather admired the Croats as soldiers and promised to help .
His colonel however took a high moral line " But surely it doesn't matter " the lieutenant replied " if they are croat whores , nursing sisters or whatever . They must go out to save them from the Russians "
The Colonel still refused . the Lieutenant later suspected that the Croats managed to smuggle their women on the planes " UNQUOTE

This does not decratct from croatian heroism and endurance but shows that men are always men even in war time .

Yours

GLADIVM

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Angelo
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#2

Post by Angelo » 17 Dec 2002, 10:03

GLADIUM wrote:
This does not decratct from croatian heroism and endurance but shows that men are always men even in war time .
I don't know if I got the whole thing right, but even if that Colonel were
Italian, and unless he had very, but very serious motivations for such a
refusal (e.g., there were a number of seriously wounded soldiers who
needed to be evaquated), I'd say if that's being man, than I'm ashamed having been born one such, don't you agree ?

Regards

Angelo


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GLADIVM
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#3

Post by GLADIVM » 18 Dec 2002, 07:26

Dear Angelo ,
my comment was a bit of a joke and should read someyhing like
" Mens are not made of Wood "
and is referring to the Croatian officers which had mistresses with them during the russian campaign .

yours

GLADIVM

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Angelo
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#4

Post by Angelo » 18 Dec 2002, 23:04

Ok! I got it. Anyway, they should have been allowed to move out, they were just civilian women :)

Thanks.

Angelo

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GLADIVM
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#5

Post by GLADIVM » 19 Dec 2002, 04:46

They did get away but without Luftwaffe knowledge , probably smuggled inside a plane by helpful pilots

Yours

GLADIVM

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Benoit Douville
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#6

Post by Benoit Douville » 23 Dec 2002, 04:05

On october 16 1942 Croatian Sergeant Dragutin Podobnik received the Iron Cross 1st class for extreme heroism during the taking of the Red October factory on the 30th of september 1942. Croatians were in fact courageous soldiers!

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GLADIVM
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#7

Post by GLADIVM » 23 Dec 2002, 07:43

Dear Benoit ,
I do not deny the heroism of the Croats in Stalingrad , if you read my post carefully , you will notice the attestation made by the Luftwaffe Lieutnant of their warrior behaviour .
The fact they brought along mistresses from Croatia on the eastern front
does not detract from their good military record .

Yours

GLADIVM

JLEES
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Croats In Stalingrad and in the Italian 8th Army

#8

Post by JLEES » 24 Dec 2002, 13:48

GLADIVM,
To you a happy holiday this Christmas!!! Yes the Croatian formations are of great interest to me too - they were truly great fighters. What is also interesting was their sister organization that fought in the Italian 8th Army during the same period. After Germany decided to train a Croatian regiment in 1941, Mussolini applied pressure on Croatia to recruit an Italian formation for his army. During the retreat from Stalingrad the Italian created Croat motor transport unit was surrounded by the Soviets and basically fought for several days to the last man defending a hill-top position. Now here you have one Croat unit trained by Germans with their equipment that fought valiantly; another trained by Italians with their equipment that also fought valiantly. What made these units fight so fanatical? What element did they possess which made them such great fighters? Man for man, the Croatians seemed to be some of Germany's best allies. Why?
James

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Lupo Solitario
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#9

Post by Lupo Solitario » 24 Dec 2002, 14:25

I have no infos about Croatians, but I think (correct me) that all those units were formed by volunteers and were really few. Were there more than 3-4000 croatians fighting on eastern front?
Those conditions (volunteering and scarce number) give quite always excellent fighting units indipendently by nationality. Again, there were probably some form of ideological motivation.

My 2 cents opinion

Buon Natale James

Lupo

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#10

Post by cybercat » 24 Dec 2002, 15:31

The Croat soldiers that are volunteers in opposition to conscripts are some of the best anywhere. They don't complain and they get on with it even when outnumbered and outgunned. When I say Croatian though I mean real Croats from Croatia not pseudo-Croats from Bosnia.

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Croatians

#11

Post by Momo » 25 Dec 2002, 18:43

Let's not forget tha most if these Croats fought in the Royal Yugoslav Armed Forces, joined the Croat Legion in Russian and then joined the Soviet raised Yugoslav "Peoples" Army. This last move is understandable, because it would have saved there lives. If any refussed to fight for communisim I'm sure they died with the rest of the German army.

Momo

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#12

Post by Chetnik » 28 Dec 2002, 22:33

The "pseudo-Croats" from Bosnia consider themselves just as Croatian as your "real Croats".

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#13

Post by Janissary » 18 May 2003, 06:34

violence is in our blood

:wink:

http://www.hr/darko/etf/et02.html

The penetration of the Ottoman Empire to Europe was stopped on Croatian soil, which could be in this sense regarded as a historical gate of European civilization. Since 1519 Croatia has been known as Antemurale Christianitatis in Western Europe. The name was given by Pope Leo X.

The Croats endured the greatest burden of this four century long war against the Turks. The most tragic fact in this war was that many islamized Croats had to fight against the Catholic Croats. It is interesting to note that the city of Zagreb and nearby Sisak despite many attempts were never occupied by the Turks, though they came as far as Vienna in 1683. Budapest for instance was in the hands of the Turks for 160 years.

It is in the 17th century that the following very condensed description of the Croatian tragedy was given by Pavao Vitezovic (1652-1713), a writer: ``Reliquiae reliquiarum olim inclyti Regni Croatiae'', i.e. ``Remains of remainings of ancient glorious Croatian Kingdom''. Indeed, throughout its long and difficult history its territory has been reduced to the shape of a flying bird

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