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Cezarprimo
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#61

Post by Cezarprimo » 08 May 2003, 09:17

Victor wrote: Actually the US declared war in 1942, just before the first air raid (Operation Halpro) on Ploesti.
True, but Romania declared war on USA in 1941 just a few days or so after Pearl Harbour. :)

I get your point regarding the frendly fire incidents. However, looking at the whole situation impartially, the chances of a firendly fire incident with the americans were far les than one with the russians, considering the front on which Romania fought after 1944.

Regards

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Victor
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#62

Post by Victor » 08 May 2003, 20:37

maresal-06 wrote: Actually, communist countries had one of the most performant educational systems in the world
:lol: :lol: :lol:
That is simply hilarious!
Anyway, do you still believe that Communists bull**** that they alphabetized the Romanian people?
Do you have any idea of what disastrous situation the Romanian education system (which is still a Communist one pretty much) is in?

I read the article. I would also like to recommend Carol II: Puterea si performanta by Sorin Alexandrescu in the March issue.


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Victor
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#63

Post by Victor » 08 May 2003, 20:39

Cezarprimo wrote:However, looking at the whole situation impartially, the chances of a firendly fire incident with the americans were far les than one with the russians, considering the front on which Romania fought after 1944.

Regards
Yes, but thisfriendly fire incident is easily explainable by the poor communication between the two new allies (just a few days). The air raid was called in by the Romanian General Staff, btw.

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dead-cat
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#64

Post by dead-cat » 09 May 2003, 09:44

Actually, communist countries had one of the most performant educational systems in the world ( I'm not jocking). In USA or Canada, some people do not know were is France in the World, or their own country. Here in Québec/Canada, nearly 70% of the students in mathematics are not passing (not having 60%) their year, and they infinetely repeat exams. As for the discipline, it's horrible. Corruption is found also in the Western "prosperity", and maybe even in a greater percentage. But from the moment that the US won the Cold War, it's normal that you see only the propaganda against Ceausescu's regime.
having "enjoyed" the "performant" education system in the communist countries (i finished highschool in 1990) i can tell how it was like.

so 70% of the students in quebec are not passing. well 99% in communist romania did pass and get a bachelor. why? because it wasn't being done serioulsy. the university entrance exam is a diffrent story. the class i happened to be in was reagarded as one of the best in school. yet 80% had no clue about mathematical analysis so the teacher diveded us into 2 groups: one for those who needed math for the university and one for those who didn't. from those who didn't she wouldn't expect anything but the most basic stuff, from the rest a bit more. still the 5 hours math/week weren't remotly enough to actually understand a damn. so i had to take lesson in private (paid by my parents) to supplement what i needed for my university entrance exam. same for physics and chemistry. EVERYBODY i know had private teachers (some hired university staff, some went to engineers they knew etc). so again, why is an educational system (labeled as "free"),which is forcing the overwhelming majority to hire for lots of money helpers so they'll be able to cope with the requirements, a performant system?
when i still lived in RO i worked with quite a few people, which were outstanding professionals (most of them are in canada btw). none of them however became one because the educational system, the sole reason was they put a lot of effort and showed alot of interest. actually they should ask for damages from the system because they were forced to waste their time during 5 years at the uni, were they were taught mostly obsolete stuff since most of the good teachers went to sweden/france and those who remained didn't care to update their coursework from the late 80ies.

did i mention that every year from sept. 1st (and the vacation was supposed to last until the 15th) to nov. 1st we were put on a train/bus and brought to the fields to assist with collecting the harvest? i'm sure that enhanced my knowledge in linear algebra a lot. and it also taught me to respect hard work, especially when i saw all the drunken peasants which were supposed to do the work in first place. or when i saw the pay the school (not me!) recived for my work: a whopping 45 cents (according to the official exchance rate of 1$=8 lei)/day. oh yeah i'm sure i was actually enjoying great life and i just didn't know to appreciate it, because my parents infected me with treacherous, counterrevolutionary ideas.

the only reason for the lack of discipline in the classrooms nowaday is the fact, that most of the staff teaching is a product of the '68 movement and an absolute fan of "nonauthoritarian"(?) education.

sorry for going that much offtopic.

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Maresal-06
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#65

Post by Maresal-06 » 09 May 2003, 16:46

victor wrote :
That is simply hilarious!
Anyway, do you still believe that Communists bull**** that they alphabetized the Romanian people?
Do you have any idea of what disastrous situation the Romanian education system (which is still a Communist one pretty much) is in?
Communist one? On what planet are you living? Everyone knows that the education system is on the Western model (French model). There is no "communist education system"...
"The most famous schools offer training in medicine, engineering and mathematics. Romania has won many international competitions in science, mathematics, medicine, drawing and music. State universities grant a considerable number of scholarships. There are ten universities in Bucharest alone and many more in other major cities."
http://www.settlement.org/cp/english/ro ... rning.html

If the education system is ruined today, that's because of your beloved democrat bloodsuckers, who suck NATO and UE and who transformed a respected country in 1989 into a cemetery.

HEEEEELLLLOOOOOOOOO! 200 Romanian engineers are working at the multi-national Bombardier!!! All formed during Ceausescu's ''tyranny''!!! HEEEELLLLOOOOOO! 15% of Microsoft's staff is Romanian!!! All formed under "brutal communism"! And these two powerful companies DID NOT chose American, French, Canadian or Mexican engineers! NO! Theu chosed Romanians, Poles, Serbs, Chinese and Viets! Why? Because they are performant! And why are they performant??? BECAUSE THEY WERE FORMED IN A PERFORMANT SYSTEM! So stop blaming these who built a country! Blame the white sharks (as you said before) who are devourishing what has remained of it!

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Maresal-06
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#66

Post by Maresal-06 » 09 May 2003, 17:11

dead-cat wrote :
well 99% in communist romania did pass and get a bachelor. why? because it wasn't being done serioulsy.
And education in the West is done more seriously? My mother is teacher here and tell her how are the classes in every school of Quebec... See how students are addressing to teachers!
the class i happened to be in was reagarded as one of the best in school. yet 80% had no clue about mathematical analysis so the teacher diveded us into 2 groups: one for those who needed math for the university and one for those who didn't.
About 50-80% of the average students in an univeristy class of French in Quebec have no idea of French gramatics. Most of them must be put in special classes to learn how to write and spell correctly. That's because in secondary school, they learn nothing.
so i had to take lesson in private (paid by my parents) to supplement what i needed for my university entrance exam. same for physics and chemistry. EVERYBODY i know had private teachers (some hired university staff, some went to engineers they knew etc). so again, why is an educational system (labeled as "free"),which is forcing the overwhelming majority to hire for lots of money helpers so they'll be able to cope with the requirements, a performant system?
When you talk about private class, you talk of the post-1989 régime. That kind of thing is normal when the actual government drinks the funds necessary for education.
when i still lived in RO i worked with quite a few people, which were outstanding professionals (most of them are in canada btw). none of them however became one because the educational system, the sole reason was they put a lot of effort and showed alot of interest. actually they should ask for damages from the system because they were forced to waste their time during 5 years at the uni, were they were taught mostly obsolete stuff since most of the good teachers went to sweden/france and those who remained didn't care to update their coursework from the late 80ies.
So none of them became professional? Where did they study? At Romanian university, no? And they studied obsolete stuff and now most of them are PROFESSIONALS in CANADA, building the Western world??? Very strange! :lol:
did i mention that every year from sept. 1st (and the vacation was supposed to last until the 15th) to nov. 1st we were put on a train/bus and brought to the fields to assist with collecting the harvest? i'm sure that enhanced my knowledge in linear algebra a lot. and it also taught me to respect hard work, especially when i saw all the drunken peasants which were supposed to do the work in first place. or when i saw the pay the school (not me!) recived for my work: a whopping 45 cents (according to the official exchance rate of 1$=8 lei)/day. oh yeah i'm sure i was actually enjoying great life and i just didn't know to appreciate it, because my parents infected me with treacherous, counterrevolutionary ideas.
So 2 months of work on the fields means END OF THE WORLD? Yes, everybody must respect hard work, even the smoothest intellectual. We must understand that the "drunken" peasant was doing only this in his life, hard work. And historically, he was always the poorest. That's we should respect him...
i'm sure that enhanced my knowledge in linear algebra a lot.
Egoism is not a virtue. We all want to learn algebra and become physicians or doctors, but you must understand that some people must also work on the fields, if you don't want to die on your books... :wink:
(according to the official exchance rate of 1$=8 lei)
Actually, in the late 80's, 1$ ~ 14 LEI. The work of students on the fields is called VOLUNTARY WORK. Remember the Caleidoscop Pioneresc! :lol: :D

Regards,

M-06

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dead-cat
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#67

Post by dead-cat » 09 May 2003, 19:35

Actually, in the late 80's, 1$ ~ 14 LEI. The work of students on the fields is called VOLUNTARY WORK. Remember the Caleidoscop Pioneresc!
are you trying to troll?
this was as voluntary as any labour camp in any dictatorship. the only diffrence was i could leave in the evening and i wouldn't get shot if i didn't do my quota.
1 DM was about 4,50 lei or so and 1$ was roughly 2 german marks. since in '89 i went to trip to the soviet union and was allowed to change for 56 rubles at a course of 1 to 9, if i remember well and because the dollar wasn't allowed to be worth more than a ruble, i remember it being around 8 lei or so. but that's of secondary importance.
Egoism is not a virtue. We all want to learn algebra and become physicians or doctors, but you must understand that some people must also work on the fields, if you don't want to die on your books...
oh yeah. some people are born leaders while others should clean the dirt. last time we had such one he ended up on the wrong side of a barrel. and i cheer that.
did you actually read any of what i wrote? all the above were PRE 1989 and were COMPULSORY. any wrong word and my father would go to jail as addition to the 5 years prison camp in our beloved socailist brotherland , the soviet union, he had to do.

it's nobodys bloody business to regulate if the entire population should become doctors or lawyers. if they can, go ahead. the market will take care of the surplus. no illiterate offsprings of the "worker and peasants" academy, the stefan gheorghiu was, are needed or wanted to mess with this.
So 2 months of work on the fields means END OF THE WORLD? Yes, everybody must respect hard work, even the smoothest intellectual. We must understand that the "drunken" peasant was doing only this in his life, hard work. And historically, he was always the poorest. That's we should respect him...
this is laughable. nobody on this planet has the right to "teach" anyone what respect for hard work means, especially not the protegees and offsprings of a person with such ridicoulous intellectual abilities that ceausescu was, and especially not in a compulsory way.
while it is true that the peasants got the worst part of socialsim, i see no reason why it's my job to do their daily work while they booze off themselves. this ain't help.
When you talk about private class, you talk of the post-1989 régime. That kind of thing is normal when the actual government drinks the funds necessary for education.
i'm talking about the PRE 1989 regime. and while we are at funds, there wern't enough books available in the 80ies for class use, so you had to buy them from a bookstore (funny that you could find some there).

About 50-80% of the average students in an univeristy class of French in Quebec have no idea of French gramatics. Most of them must be put in special classes to learn how to write and spell correctly. That's because in secondary school, they learn nothing.
no, that's because they don't read during secondary school, they play pokemon games and watch idiotic TV shows. but that's their parents fault. school is a place where you should be made aware of something which should be repeated and understood after class at home (or in the library). school ain't a place where you dump your children in the morning, collect them in the afteroon and expect them to become smart after 12 years, just because after all, you're paying taxes to fund the system.
And education in the West is done more seriously? My mother is teacher here and tell her how are the classes in every school of Quebec... See how students are addressing to teachers!
depends where. i certainly don't like what i see, but the current state i'm blaming on the '68s. it wasn't allways this way. and finnland for example is still doing a good job on this regard in an international comparision.
So none of them became professional? Where did they study? At Romanian university, no? And they studied obsolete stuff and now most of them are PROFESSIONALS in CANADA, building the Western world??? Very strange!
which part wasn't understandable?
those people became outstanding professionals because they put in a great amount of additional work to overcome the brakes of the educational system (teachers too old or which don't care, bad equipment etc. it's easier however, to close the gap if you're in the computer industry). it's called self study, something which you should be well aware of.


as far as building the "western world", the remark is ridiculous. and if you find self-study strange i hope you have the most outstanding teachers in quebec, because without self study you will badly need them to learn algebra or to become one of those physicians or doctors.
a respected country in 1989
respected???? by whom? by those upper 10 000, all absolvents of the national academy of spies with a PhD degree in torture and thievery?

now i'm convinced you're trolling.

there was a chance in 1990 to be respected. and they blew it.
15% of Microsoft's staff is Romanian!!! All formed under "brutal communism"!
i'd question the 15% but i'm sure the number is large. and none of this people owe the romanian educational system a rusty nickel. also they weren't formed by that pre1989 "performant" system. if you have any relation to the IT industry, you know that it ain't based on a ZX80 which was pretty much the only cpu available pre1989 in RO(apart from some soviet stuff nobody uses), and at a black market price of 12 000 lei certainly not available to all those who form the 15% you claim to be working for M$. we are offtopic allready and it would get us more offtopic to discuss the quality of M$ products unleashed unto us, i'll ask you: do you have any relation with a romanian IT company? did you ever work for one? i did.
And these two powerful companies DID NOT chose American, French, Canadian or Mexican engineers! NO! Theu chosed Romanians, Poles, Serbs, Chinese and Viets! Why? Because they are performant!
as much i wish it was true: it ain't. not the fact that the romanians working there wouldn't be good engineers. i know too many of them to know that that ain't true. if companies hire someone they choose the cheaper one. and once you start there, if you arn't allready established in the country, you HAVE to go cheaper in order to secure a job, since you ain't on unemployment benefits, because you just arrived. newcomers are allways cheaper at first until they establish themselves. then the feeling of being underpaid kicks in and they go off for a better paid job. that's how it works. there were countless recruitment companies in the us which brought H1Bs to the US during the dot bomb boom.
So stop blaming these who built a country
build? throughoughly destroyed it, and took the pride from all the people they could.

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Marcus
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#68

Post by Marcus » 09 May 2003, 19:39

This is going nowhere pleasant.

/Marcus

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