Horthy renaissance in Hungary

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Treve
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Horthy renaissance in Hungary

Post by Treve » 12 Jul 2012 05:04


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CB1
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Re: Horthy renaissance in Hungary

Post by CB1 » 15 Jul 2012 14:59

Hi,

There is already such a post:
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=105&t=189507

I do not really see the point of either of these posts but let me broaden its scope and asses the statue situation in the region:

1) Hungary
So Horthy, who was never convicted as a war criminal (well, he was never even charged, although he was in Nürnberg at the time when plenty of Nazis got the noose there), now has two statues in Hungary. (Vuk, now your statement is correct :-) although one of them is already removed.)

2) Slovakia
Tiso - sentenced to death and hanged - got his statue back in 2007:
http://spravy.pravda.sk/stovky-ludi-spominali-pri-hrobe-tisa-dsa-/sk_domace.asp?c=A070418_185213_sk_domace_p04

3) Romania
Antonescu - sentenced to death and shot - already got six statues by 2003, the first one in 1993:
http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1993-12-08/news/1993342207_1_antonescu-anti-semitism-romania

In my opinion neither of these gentlemen deserve a statue.

Bye,
Krisz

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KACKO
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Re: Horthy renaissance in Hungary

Post by KACKO » 15 Jul 2012 16:16

CB1 wrote:2) Slovakia
Tiso - sentenced to death and hanged - got his statue back in 2007:
http://spravy.pravda.sk/stovky-ludi-spominali-pri-hrobe-tisa-dsa-/sk_domace.asp?c=A070418_185213_sk_domace_p04

Well, technically it is not statue but new head stone on his tomb.
Other thing is, Tiso was hanged for wrong reason. Main point was treason on Czechoslovakia and treason on Slovak National Uprising. But in that case Benes should be hanged right by him for treason in fall 1938. 8-) And Horthy could be tried for Crimes against Peace. :wink:

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CB1
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Re: Horthy renaissance in Hungary

Post by CB1 » 15 Jul 2012 16:37

Benes should be hanged right by him for treason in fall 1938.


Please forgive me for venturing this but if we speak about treason I reckon Benes should have been hanged during WW1 already :-)

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KACKO
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Re: Horthy renaissance in Hungary

Post by KACKO » 15 Jul 2012 17:18

CB1 wrote:
Benes should be hanged right by him for treason in fall 1938.


Please forgive me for venturing this but if we speak about treason I reckon Benes should have been hanged during WW1 already :-)

Of course my dear friend you are right. There are of course small technicalities which didn't allow this solution of Austro-Hungarian problem at the time. First they needed to catch him and bring him to court of justice (or unjustice :D). Second is, his side won and as history taught us, winners are seldom tried. Here we have nice example what happens if you loose from our common ancestor Slovak Hungarian or Hungarian Slovak Lajos Kossuth (I know he stated otherwise but from other side, his uncle Juraj Kosut disagreed with him). ;)
Of course, Benes won again in 1945 (at least he thought so until 1948).

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CB1
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Re: Horthy renaissance in Hungary

Post by CB1 » 15 Jul 2012 19:57

Ah, Benes... He knew how to position himself. First the Polish-Czechoslovak Confederation to ensure British support, then approaching Stalin. No wonder no one trusted him by 1948 :-)

I remember discussing that he received some funds from the Soviet Union and later this was used to discredit him (Sudoplatov mentions this in his book, if memory serves me well). Any news on that?

Kossuth... Slovaks chose the losing side in that war as the masses remained loyal to Kossuth (and Hungary) and never flocked to Stur-Hurban movement. At least that is how I know the story.

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KACKO
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Re: Horthy renaissance in Hungary

Post by KACKO » 16 Jul 2012 02:53

CB1 wrote:Ah, Benes... He knew how to position himself. First the Polish-Czechoslovak Confederation to ensure British support, then approaching Stalin. No wonder no one trusted him by 1948 :-)

I remember discussing that he received some funds from the Soviet Union and later this was used to discredit him (Sudoplatov mentions this in his book, if memory serves me well). Any news on that?

Kossuth... Slovaks chose the losing side in that war as the masses remained loyal to Kossuth (and Hungary) and never flocked to Stur-Hurban movement. At least that is how I know the story.

God knows with Benes. As to the founds. There were others, not just from Soviets. According to some sources, Stefanik had to die because he had information on Mr. Benes how he defrauded founds of Czech and Slovak patriots during WWI (in Monte Casino??) and he was threatening him, that after liberation it will be addressed. After his accident during landing in Prespork, nothing was addressed of course. Of course in 1948 there was somebody else who was deciding Czechoslovak policy. And it was not almighty Mr. Benes :D
As to Kossuth... What masses? I would say, masses in Slovak lands were more or less indifferent to both sides. But as you see, politicians learned later, after His majesty betrayal, how to pick up wining side. :D There are proves in WWI and WWII which are still hold against Slovaks by some parts of Hungarian spectrum.
Can somebody blame our politicians? :D
Actually history is giving some justice more to pro A-H side. Around 450 000 people from today territory Slovakia served in A-H army. But from Czechoslovak legion only something between 10-20 % were Slovaks. Of course, volunteers from USA were almost 50-50 between Czech and Slovaks.
As to WWII. According to some available numbers, more Slovaks served in anti Nazi Czechoslovak forces abroad then in Slovak army during WWII. According to other numbers more Czechoslovak citizens of Slovak nationality served in Czechoslovak armies abroad then Czechs. And as I red recently, many soldiers returning from Slovak units fighting in USSR after they served they time in the army (ye strange, Slovak army called during WWII for 2 years service and soldiers were promised to go home even from battlefield of Russia to go home after they time is up) said, call us backi when we will go back against Hungarians. Was it propaganda or general feeling after Vienna 1938 and March war 1939? I do not know. Unfortunately my knowledge of history is not so good. ;)

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CB1
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Re: Horthy renaissance in Hungary

Post by CB1 » 16 Jul 2012 20:22

Well, what do you know? Had Benes really had such sticky hands :-) I thought that the Stefanik accident had to something with his views of a more independent Slovakia. It was him who introduced Benes and Masaryk to French political circles, wasn't it?

As this post is originally about statues here is one of Stefanik's erected in Szarvas, where he had his Abitur:
http://szoborlap.hu/12915_m_r_stefanik_tabornok_szobra_szarvas_1991.html?f=photo&id=70031

Just to spread gossip about other politicians; Kossuth is also said to have embezzled some funds (of an orphanage). And I wonder what happened to the money he collected during his exile in the USA :-)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-ONE-DOLLAR-New-York-NY-Hungarian-Fund-RARE-1852-/251006907762#ht_1090wt_905

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KACKO
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Re: Horthy renaissance in Hungary

Post by KACKO » 16 Jul 2012 22:25

Hehe, seems sticky hands and politicians goes together through history.

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