Hungary is ‘brutal and selfish’

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Treve
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Hungary is ‘brutal and selfish’

Post by Treve » 13 Jul 2012 18:13

Hitler in a conversation with Goebbels on 10 November 1939 described Hungary as ‘brutal and selfish’ along with the claim that she oppressed 'her racial minorities like no other nation’.

What could have prompted these incredibly ironic remarks and so much bitterness so early on in the war? Was there a diplomatic issue at the time or was Hitler just venting?

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CB1
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Re: Hungary is ‘brutal and selfish’

Post by CB1 » 15 Jul 2012 14:21

Hi,

Hitler had positive remarks on Hungarians (something along the lines of descendants of fierce mounted warriors) but that was before Horthy flatly refused to participate in the would-be war against Czechoslovakia in 1938. Next came the Polish campaign, when Hungary not only denied rail transit to attacking Slovak troops but showed great sympathy to Polish refugees.

Germans were especially annoyed by the treatment of German ethnic minorities. I have read a report complaining about the conduct of Hungarian authorities. They offered top German intelligentsia plush jobs in the state administration so those people lost all incentive to take part in "fifth column" like activities. The German minority thus became divided: one part loyal to Hungary another part supporter of the Volksbund.

Bye,
Krisz

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KACKO
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Re: Hungary is ‘brutal and selfish’

Post by KACKO » 16 Jul 2012 02:34

Well Polish campaign and Hungarian refusal came to my mind as first. But who can blame Horthy to play it as safe as possible?

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Treve
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Re: Hungary is ‘brutal and selfish’

Post by Treve » 16 Jul 2012 13:04

The reference to the German minority in Hungary is pertinent as is general irritation with Hungary. Hitler's remarks are more revelatory of his psychology and mentality than they are of Hungary. During this period of alliance with Russia he was also very critical of Finland.

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cavszabo
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Re: Hungary is ‘brutal and selfish’

Post by cavszabo » 07 Oct 2012 12:55

CB1 wrote:Hi,

The German minority thus became divided: one part loyal to Hungary another part supporter of the Volksbund.

Bye,
Krisz


As my mother was from the German minority, I happen to know the facts. What happened was the Germans were not allowed to join the SS etc until later in the war, when German pressure was strong, and an organisation was formed called "Hűségmozgalom" or "Loyalty Movement". This got the German youth into Hungarian organisations and the Army, rather than the SS. As for plush jobs, I never heard of anything like that. Could you cite some facts?

Also, after the war, the ethnic Germans who were in the Volksbund were deported by the Soviets and their Hungarian collaborators.
Cheers,
Chris

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CB1
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Re: Hungary is ‘brutal and selfish’

Post by CB1 » 11 Oct 2012 00:38

Hi,

I cannot remember exactly but I think I did read such a report in this book:
http://www.historiaantik.hu/index.php?p=reszletek&konyv=13433

Unfortunately I do not have it on hand at the moment so I cannot check.

If you google however on Gusztáv Gratz (Ungarländisch Deutscher Volksbildungsverein) and Richard Huss/Ferenc Basch (Volksdeutsche Kameradschaft, later Volksbund der Deutschen in Ungarn) you will see that a policy of "divide and impera" was employed in case of ethnic Germans in Hungary. I can imagine that the "Basch people" saw the "Gratz people" taking up plush jobs while betraying the Reich.

I think there was even talk about relocating Germans from Hungary to Germany

As far as I know ethnic Germans were never prohibited to travel to Germany to join the SS but they could do it only by forfeiting their Hungarian citizenship.
http://www.sulinet.hu/oroksegtar/data/magyarorszagi_kisebbsegek/nemetek/nemet_nemzetiseg_magyar_hazafisag/pages/010_toborzas_es_kenyszersorozas.htm

Bye,
Krisz

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waldzee
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amazing

Post by waldzee » 11 Oct 2012 02:33

Treve wrote:Hitler in a conversation with Goebbels on 10 November 1939 described Hungary as ‘brutal and selfish’ along with the claim that she oppressed 'her racial minorities like no other nation’.

What could have prompted these incredibly ironic remarks and so much bitterness so early on in the war? Was there a diplomatic issue at the time or was Hitler just venting?

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Pe war Magyarization was a fairly enlightened policy, esp .ccompared to herr Hitlers' tartarus on earth...

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