I am seeking some exact info about Slovakian losses during the Hungarian-Slovakian border conflict in March, 1939. I know well the Slovak Air Force's losses, so I am interested in just the Army's losses.
Regards,
Csaba
Slovakian losses in March, 1939
-
Csaba Becze
- Member
- Posts: 656
- Joined: 27 May 2002, 11:44
- Location: Hungary
- Contact:
Only reference i have mentioning casualties is
http://www.wwiivehicles.com/html/slovakia/
which says the Slovaks lost 1 Lt vz 35
http://www.wwiivehicles.com/html/slovakia/
which says the Slovaks lost 1 Lt vz 35
-
Csaba Becze
- Member
- Posts: 656
- Joined: 27 May 2002, 11:44
- Location: Hungary
- Contact:
Germany's First Allies briefly describes the actions of 23-26th March 1939 but gives no casualties. Niehorster's Hungarian Army 1920 - 45 gives Hungarian losses (72 KIA, 144 WIA, 3 MIA) but no Slovakian casualties.
I have not seen a copy of Axworthy's Axis Slovakia, perhaps this has the details you need.
A brief search of the net yielded nothing useful. If yu find the information Csaba Becze could you please post it, thanks.
I have not seen a copy of Axworthy's Axis Slovakia, perhaps this has the details you need.
A brief search of the net yielded nothing useful. If yu find the information Csaba Becze could you please post it, thanks.
In answer to the same question on Slovak casualties in March 1939 I have come across this response
p8 of the archive
see http://f16.parsimony.net/forum27945/First people died during bombing of the city Spisská Nová Ves -13 people
During war operations died another 23 soldiers.
p8 of the archive
-
Csaba Becze
- Member
- Posts: 656
- Joined: 27 May 2002, 11:44
- Location: Hungary
- Contact:
The casualties,mentioned by Niehorster, were suffered during all March (beween 15 and 31), in Kárpátalja, against the ex Czechoslovakian troops and Sic Guard, and against Slovakian troops in eastern Slovakia also.
As I mentioned before, I know the Slovakian Air Forc's losses on 23 and 24 March, 1939 but not the Army Troops losses. Evidently, they had losses (for example: the SAF lost 5 killed and 1 POW crewmen during 23-24, the HAF lost none; durint the air raid against Spisska Nova Ves they lost 5 perished soldiers, etc, etc)
As I mentioned before, I know the Slovakian Air Forc's losses on 23 and 24 March, 1939 but not the Army Troops losses. Evidently, they had losses (for example: the SAF lost 5 killed and 1 POW crewmen during 23-24, the HAF lost none; durint the air raid against Spisska Nova Ves they lost 5 perished soldiers, etc, etc)
-
Csaba Becze
- Member
- Posts: 656
- Joined: 27 May 2002, 11:44
- Location: Hungary
- Contact:
thx, daveh, nuklik's answer contained, what I wanted to seek:
http://f16.parsimony.net/forum27945/messages/893.htm
Maybe this number contained the losses of the SAF also, but maybe not (from the 13 killed in Spisska Nova Ves, 5 were soldiers also, and unfortunately, 8 were civilians)
http://f16.parsimony.net/forum27945/messages/893.htm
Maybe this number contained the losses of the SAF also, but maybe not (from the 13 killed in Spisska Nova Ves, 5 were soldiers also, and unfortunately, 8 were civilians)
Border war with Hungary !
Taken from this book :
http://members.fortunecity.com/arpitec/0437.jpg
Claims by both sides were contradictory.
At the time the Hungarians announced the capture of four light tanks and an armoured car. However, no Slovak light tanks had ever entered action and a medal was awarded to the man who recovered the one knocked-out armoured car from no man's land during the night. On the other hand there is no doubt that the Hungarians did come into possession of at least one LTvz35 tank and one OAvz27 armoured car during March.
The contradictions are attributable to a combination of the fog of war, propaganda and confusion between Hungarian captures in Ruthenia and eastern Slovakia.
Slovak casualties are officially recorded as 22 dead-all were named and so this total is probably accurate.
On 25th March the Hungarians announced their own losses as 8 dead and 30 wounded. Two days later they gave out a figure of 23 dead and 55 wounded-a total that may include their earlier losses occupying Ruthenia. They also reported they were holding 360 Slovaks and 311 Czechs prisoner. Many of the Slovaks presumably belonged to the two companies reportedly surprised asleep in their barracks in the first minutes of the invasion. The Czechs were stragglers from the garrison of Ruthenia.
The Slovak Air Force's influence on operations had been minimal. On the ground the Hungarians admitted to the loss of a Hansa halftrack and a few casualties to air attack. In the air they lost no aircraft at all.
By contrast, the Slovaks had lost two aircraft to ground fire, six in aerial combat and seven on the ground.
http://members.fortunecity.com/arpitec/0437.jpg
Claims by both sides were contradictory.
At the time the Hungarians announced the capture of four light tanks and an armoured car. However, no Slovak light tanks had ever entered action and a medal was awarded to the man who recovered the one knocked-out armoured car from no man's land during the night. On the other hand there is no doubt that the Hungarians did come into possession of at least one LTvz35 tank and one OAvz27 armoured car during March.
The contradictions are attributable to a combination of the fog of war, propaganda and confusion between Hungarian captures in Ruthenia and eastern Slovakia.
Slovak casualties are officially recorded as 22 dead-all were named and so this total is probably accurate.
On 25th March the Hungarians announced their own losses as 8 dead and 30 wounded. Two days later they gave out a figure of 23 dead and 55 wounded-a total that may include their earlier losses occupying Ruthenia. They also reported they were holding 360 Slovaks and 311 Czechs prisoner. Many of the Slovaks presumably belonged to the two companies reportedly surprised asleep in their barracks in the first minutes of the invasion. The Czechs were stragglers from the garrison of Ruthenia.
The Slovak Air Force's influence on operations had been minimal. On the ground the Hungarians admitted to the loss of a Hansa halftrack and a few casualties to air attack. In the air they lost no aircraft at all.
By contrast, the Slovaks had lost two aircraft to ground fire, six in aerial combat and seven on the ground.
Border war with Hungary
[img]members.fortunecity.com/arpitec/Slovaks.jpg[/img]
Btw, it was an armoured car that was knocked out in the middle of the road by a 37mm anti-tank gun.
If you need more infos or OoBs on Slovakia ? Just ask me !
Btw, it was an armoured car that was knocked out in the middle of the road by a 37mm anti-tank gun.
If you need more infos or OoBs on Slovakia ? Just ask me !
-
Csaba Becze
- Member
- Posts: 656
- Joined: 27 May 2002, 11:44
- Location: Hungary
- Contact:
arpitec:
many thanks for your help.
About the Slovakian Air Force's losses: I know, that the air attack against Spidsska Nova Ves damaged 2 Avia B.534's, one Letov S.328, three Aero Ap.32's and an Avia B-71. All of this planes were written off/junked?
The 22 died soldiers is the total number? This number included the lost pilots and the victims of the air raid against Spisska Nova Ves?
About the armored vehicle losses:
One Ltvz35 tank was knocked out in Ruthenia and another damaged were captured also (ex Czechoslovakian vehicles)
On March 24, 1939 the Hungarians claimed 4 armored cars (maybe one was knocked out and 3 damaged?) The type of the armoured cars were Tatra OA vz 27?
Regards,
Csaba
many thanks for your help.
About the Slovakian Air Force's losses: I know, that the air attack against Spidsska Nova Ves damaged 2 Avia B.534's, one Letov S.328, three Aero Ap.32's and an Avia B-71. All of this planes were written off/junked?
The 22 died soldiers is the total number? This number included the lost pilots and the victims of the air raid against Spisska Nova Ves?
About the armored vehicle losses:
One Ltvz35 tank was knocked out in Ruthenia and another damaged were captured also (ex Czechoslovakian vehicles)
On March 24, 1939 the Hungarians claimed 4 armored cars (maybe one was knocked out and 3 damaged?) The type of the armoured cars were Tatra OA vz 27?
Regards,
Csaba
On the morning of the Hungarian attack, 23rd March, three Letov S-328's spotted their advance. In the early afternoon three more Letovs, equipped with bombs and escorted by three Avia B-534's, set out to attack the Hungarians columns. However, over Sobrance they were hit by well-directed Hungarian anti-aircraft fire, which downed an Avia and damaged a Letov. At 1500 three more Avias strafed a column of Hungarian armour and trucks near Ulic, but another Avia was lost. All the four Avias that returned to base that day were damaged by anti-aircraft fire, which restricted availability the following day.
At dawn on 24th March, six Avias took off from Spisska Nova Ves on another ground attack mission but were intercepted over Sobrance by the nine Hungarian Fiat CR32's from Uzhorod. One Avia was shot down and two others crash landed. The pilot of one was captured by the Hungarians. The CR32's broke off the action, leaving the surviving Avias to expend their remaining ammunition on Hungarian ground forces. A few hours later, three more Letovs bombed the Hungarians around Ladomirov and Sobrance. One was damaged by ground fire. A final air battle took place in mid-afternoon. Three Letovs, escorted by three Avias, were intercepted by nine Fiats from Uzhorod shortlyafter delivering their bombs. One Letov was downed, but the Avias managed to ensure the escape of the others. However, they lost two of their number in the process.
The Hungarians now delivered their "coup de grace". Eighteen Ju86 bombers from Debrecen, escorted by nine CR32's from Miskolc, set out to raid Spisska Nova Ves, which the captured Slovak pilot had let slip was the main Slovak air base. Nine of the bombers found their target at 1645, and destroyed or damaged two Avia B-534's, three Aero AP-32's, one Letov S-328 and the single Avia B-71 bomber on the ground. Although the airfield was still usable, this raid effectively crippled the remaining Slovak Air Force in eastern Slovakia. It also killed several Volksdeutsch civilians, which angered the Reich and made the Hungarian strike unrepeatable.
At dawn on 24th March, six Avias took off from Spisska Nova Ves on another ground attack mission but were intercepted over Sobrance by the nine Hungarian Fiat CR32's from Uzhorod. One Avia was shot down and two others crash landed. The pilot of one was captured by the Hungarians. The CR32's broke off the action, leaving the surviving Avias to expend their remaining ammunition on Hungarian ground forces. A few hours later, three more Letovs bombed the Hungarians around Ladomirov and Sobrance. One was damaged by ground fire. A final air battle took place in mid-afternoon. Three Letovs, escorted by three Avias, were intercepted by nine Fiats from Uzhorod shortlyafter delivering their bombs. One Letov was downed, but the Avias managed to ensure the escape of the others. However, they lost two of their number in the process.
The Hungarians now delivered their "coup de grace". Eighteen Ju86 bombers from Debrecen, escorted by nine CR32's from Miskolc, set out to raid Spisska Nova Ves, which the captured Slovak pilot had let slip was the main Slovak air base. Nine of the bombers found their target at 1645, and destroyed or damaged two Avia B-534's, three Aero AP-32's, one Letov S-328 and the single Avia B-71 bomber on the ground. Although the airfield was still usable, this raid effectively crippled the remaining Slovak Air Force in eastern Slovakia. It also killed several Volksdeutsch civilians, which angered the Reich and made the Hungarian strike unrepeatable.
I think it's only the ground forces !The 22 died soldiers is the total number?
No, they were OAvz30 armoured cars that were sabotaged in Presov by the Czechs and repaired by the Slovaks !The type of the armoured cars were Tatra OA vz 27?
-
Csaba Becze
- Member
- Posts: 656
- Joined: 27 May 2002, 11:44
- Location: Hungary
- Contact:
arpitec:
This book contains some mistakes about the air engagements. On 24 March, 1939 were the follow dogfights:
In morning 3 Avia vs 3 CR 32. Two Avia crashed, one pilot (a squadron commander) killed. The third Avia was claimed by Hungarians as damaged, the Slovaks said, that it was undamaged.
In the afternoon 3 Letov, escorted by 3 Avias, engaged with 9 CR 32's. One Letov crashed, the crew perished, one another emergency landed (it's engine damaged by a Hungarian fighter, but the Slovaks said, it was an "engine failure" ) All three Avias were downed (one was repaired some days later, 2 were total losses). The Hungarian Air Force lost none (one CR 32 was damaged by Hungarian AA fire)
The Slovakian pilot, who was taken POW, was downed by AA fire, not by fighters.
The performence of the Hungarian fighters were very notable, because the Avia was a better plane (faster with more firepower, etc)
So, this source didn't mention the exact fate of the damaged planes? I think, at least part of this number were written off, because the later SAF strength reports didn't mention this Avia B 71 bomber and the Aero Ap 32 planes. The number of Avias and Letovs were too big, I can't identify the damaged planes' fate.
BTW, the Hungarians don't want to attack this air base again. They wanted to attack it with a bigger group, but some unit changed their bomb load 3 times and missed the attack. If the all group attacked the air field, it would be totally ruined.
I know all names of the lost crewmen of the SAF, and all of the victims of the air raid (5 soldiers, including an observer officer, and 8 civilians) This book contains 22 names? If it contains this names, I can compare the names, and I'll find the exact number.
Sorry, but my English is very poor
This book contains some mistakes about the air engagements. On 24 March, 1939 were the follow dogfights:
In morning 3 Avia vs 3 CR 32. Two Avia crashed, one pilot (a squadron commander) killed. The third Avia was claimed by Hungarians as damaged, the Slovaks said, that it was undamaged.
In the afternoon 3 Letov, escorted by 3 Avias, engaged with 9 CR 32's. One Letov crashed, the crew perished, one another emergency landed (it's engine damaged by a Hungarian fighter, but the Slovaks said, it was an "engine failure"
) All three Avias were downed (one was repaired some days later, 2 were total losses). The Hungarian Air Force lost none (one CR 32 was damaged by Hungarian AA fire)The Slovakian pilot, who was taken POW, was downed by AA fire, not by fighters.
The performence of the Hungarian fighters were very notable, because the Avia was a better plane (faster with more firepower, etc)
So, this source didn't mention the exact fate of the damaged planes? I think, at least part of this number were written off, because the later SAF strength reports didn't mention this Avia B 71 bomber and the Aero Ap 32 planes. The number of Avias and Letovs were too big, I can't identify the damaged planes' fate.
BTW, the Hungarians don't want to attack this air base again. They wanted to attack it with a bigger group, but some unit changed their bomb load 3 times and missed the attack. If the all group attacked the air field, it would be totally ruined.
I know all names of the lost crewmen of the SAF, and all of the victims of the air raid (5 soldiers, including an observer officer, and 8 civilians) This book contains 22 names? If it contains this names, I can compare the names, and I'll find the exact number.
Sorry, but my English is very poor
-
Csaba Becze
- Member
- Posts: 656
- Joined: 27 May 2002, 11:44
- Location: Hungary
- Contact: