Hungarian river gunboats 1944

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mfy4444
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Posts: 91
Joined: 29 Aug 2012 21:43

Hungarian river gunboats 1944

Post by mfy4444 » 18 Jul 2017 14:36

Hello all. This is the first time I've posted on this part of the forum. I have some questions about operations of the Hungarian Danube River flotilla, and since I don't read Magyar this is a hard topic to research.

From what I've been able to find online, I read the following:

On September 20, 1944, gunboat PM-2 is sunk by American bombers while still undergoing trials
On September 20, 1944, larger gunboat Godollo is sunk by American bombers while docked for an engine upgrade

On November 25, 1944, gunboat Debrecen is sunk off Csepel island near Tokol by Soviet T-34 tanks: hit several times and burns up (the only Hungarian gunboat sunk while in action during the war, according to one source)
On November 25, 1944, gunboat PM-1 is hit twice by T-34s off Csepel island near Tokol: six men killed, three wounded, but the boat makes it back to a friendly base and is repaired (in the process replacing its three 160 hp motors with two 210 hp).

Questions:

1. Is the above information correct? It seems possible and even logical that one American air raid at the docks area sank both Godollo and PM-2; equally likely that Debrecen and PM-1 were both part of the same big fight, as there was a battle raging for Tokol on land on November 25. But the fact that all four events happened on only two days makes me worry that one of my sources confused events. Also, any other details on the loss/damage of any of those boats would be welcome.

2. Is it true that PM-1 had two modified Turan turrets (each with a 40mm gun and two 8mm machineguns on a twin mount), but PM-2 and PM-3 instead had a single Csaba armored car turret, with a 20mm gun and a machinegun? At this site, where I got much of the information about the PM boats, there were pictures of both PM-1 and PM-2 which seem to confirm this:

http://live.warthunder.com/post/544267/en/

3. Does anyone have any information about the exact fate of PM-3? It was supposedly sunk in January 1945, but the cause is not known?

4. Is it true that instead of two 80mm (presumably Bofors?) guns some of the larger ex-Austrian gunboats actually mounted 76.5mm guns? If so, which ones?

Thanks for any help

Regards

Mike Yaklich

grassi
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Posts: 525
Joined: 23 Aug 2004 10:18
Location: Munich

Re: Hungarian river gunboats 1944

Post by grassi » 18 Jul 2017 21:13

Dear Mike,

you might find information on this old threas:
/viewtopic.php?t=5367

Best regards!


grassi

mfy4444
Member
Posts: 91
Joined: 29 Aug 2012 21:43

Re: Hungarian river gunboats 1944

Post by mfy4444 » 19 Jul 2017 22:35

Thanks, Grassi. I did read that previous thread when I was searching for information, it seems on a closer re-reading that Gyor was the only one of the ex-Austrian gunboats that had 80mm Bofors guns so that answered one of my questions. It's too bad the link in that thread is no longer good, it leads to nothing now. Also, the book that keeps getting cited (in some other things I've read online) is all in Hungarian so no good to me, even if I could get my hands on it.

This is another good link I found (same site as for the PM boats) that had some good information:

http://live.warthunder.com/post/544318/en/

I think I have my facts right but since I've seen such few references I have no way to double-check, that was the main reason for my original post. I was hoping someone who had read some Hungarian sources could help me out here with verification and maybe more details.

If both Debrecen and PM 1 were shot up by T-34s off Csepel island near Tokol on November 25, that must have been a pretty heated action. From an account by a Hungarian officer of that day's fighting on Csepel and in the river (he does mention Hungarian "speedboats") in Krisztian Ungvary's "The Siege of Budapest" it sounded like pretty much a one-way slaughter of Soviet forces trying to cross the river, but apparently the Russians landed a blow or two of their own in those actions... (of course, I'm not sure if the account quoted in Ungvary's book occurred at Tokol, which was mentioned for heavy fighting November 22-23).

Regards

Mike Yaklich

lupodimare89
Member
Posts: 453
Joined: 07 Mar 2013 01:32

Re: Hungarian river gunboats 1944

Post by lupodimare89 » 08 Aug 2019 11:16

Sadly i've not fully recorded it because it wasn't a main interest of mine (i focus more on the direct boats vs boats action) but i am fairly sure that there is a Soviet account of using an artillery piece as a makeshift "railway gun" on a brief rail trait, and THAT piece (and not Soviet tanks) were responsable for the attack on a Hungarian boat (PM-1 or Debrecen), i will try to re-find the description of the action on Soviet perspective.

Peter89
Member
Posts: 245
Joined: 28 Aug 2018 05:52
Location: Hungary

Re: Hungarian river gunboats 1944

Post by Peter89 » 09 Aug 2019 09:55

mfy4444 wrote:
19 Jul 2017 22:35
Thanks, Grassi. I did read that previous thread when I was searching for information, it seems on a closer re-reading that Gyor was the only one of the ex-Austrian gunboats that had 80mm Bofors guns so that answered one of my questions. It's too bad the link in that thread is no longer good, it leads to nothing now. Also, the book that keeps getting cited (in some other things I've read online) is all in Hungarian so no good to me, even if I could get my hands on it.

This is another good link I found (same site as for the PM boats) that had some good information:

http://live.warthunder.com/post/544318/en/

I think I have my facts right but since I've seen such few references I have no way to double-check, that was the main reason for my original post. I was hoping someone who had read some Hungarian sources could help me out here with verification and maybe more details.

If both Debrecen and PM 1 were shot up by T-34s off Csepel island near Tokol on November 25, that must have been a pretty heated action. From an account by a Hungarian officer of that day's fighting on Csepel and in the river (he does mention Hungarian "speedboats") in Krisztian Ungvary's "The Siege of Budapest" it sounded like pretty much a one-way slaughter of Soviet forces trying to cross the river, but apparently the Russians landed a blow or two of their own in those actions... (of course, I'm not sure if the account quoted in Ungvary's book occurred at Tokol, which was mentioned for heavy fighting November 22-23).

Regards

Mike Yaklich
If you need Hungarian translation, please send me the links.

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