Romanian army peacetime organization

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CNE503
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Romanian army peacetime organization

Post by CNE503 » 13 Sep 2020 11:20

Hello,

Does anyone know what was the peacetime organization of the Romanian army in 1940/41?
I'm especially looking for the peacetime garrisons of the army/corps HQ and divisions/brigades.

I found the following information for November 1940, but it needs to be confirmed/corrected:

Armata 1 HQ: Sibiu – this army is responsible for Transylvania and Banat, facing Hungary and Yougoslavia in the western part of the country:
- Corpul 7 Armata - Sibiu:
o Divizia 1 Blindata - Turda;
o Brigada 1 Cavalerie - Vinga;
o Brigada 9 Cavalerie - Timisoara;
o Divizia 1 Infanterie - Arad;
o Divizia 18 Infanterie - Târgu Jiu);
o Divizia 19 Infanterie - Caransebes;
o Divizia 20 Infanterie - Blaj, Medias, Turda;
o Brigada 2 Mixta Munte - Alba Julia;
o Brigada 3 Mixta Munte - Brad, Abrud, Valciu.

Armata 3 HQ: Bucarest – facing Bulgaria:
- Corpul 1 Armata - Craiova:
o Divizia 2 Infanterie - Craiova;
o Divizia 3 Infanterie - Pitesti;
o Divizia 11 Infanterie - Slatina.
[Nafziger's ok]
- Corpul 2 Armata - Constanta:
o Brigada 7 Cavalerie - Constanta;
o Divizia 4 Infanterie - Bucarest;
o Divizia 9 Infanterie - Constanta;
o Divizia 10 Infanterie - Tulcea.
[Nafziger says that C2A was set up with D9I, D10I and D1G]

Armata 4 HQ: Tecuci – facing USSR (and the parts of Romania annexed by Hungary from the East):
- Corpul Cavalerie - Botosani:
o Brigada 5 Cavalerie;
o Brigada 6 Cavalerie;
o Brigada 8 Cavalerie.
- Corpul 3 Armata - Tecuci:
o Divizia 15 Infanterie - Bârlad, Vaslui, Husi;
o Divizia 21 Infanterie - Tecuci, Galati;
o Divizia 1 Garda - deployed between Tecuci and Galati.
[Nafziger adds D12I - disbanded after July 1940 - but not D1G]
- Corpul 4 Armata - Iasi:
o Divizia 7 Infanterie - Roman, Pascani, Falticeni;
o Divizia 8 Infanterie - Buhusi, Bacau;
o Divizia 14 Infanterie - Iasi, Târgu Frumos).
[Nafziger's ok]
- Corpul 5 Armata - Buzau:
o Divizia 5 Infanterie - Buzau;
o Divizia 6 Infanterie - Adjud;
o Divizia 13 Infanterie - Ploiesti;
o Divizia 1 Graniceri - Braila, Fetesti.
[Nafziger's ok, except for D1Gr, which was according to him independent]
- Corpul Munte - Piatra Neamt:
o Brigada 1 Mixta Munte - Comanesti, Târgu Ocna;
o Brigada 4 Mixta Munte - Bistrita valley.

Is this seems correct to you?

Thank you for any help provided.
Regards,
"Sicut Aquila" / "Ils s'instruisent pour vaincre" / "par l'exemple, le coeur et la raison" / "Labor Omnia Vincit"

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steppewolf
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Re: Romanian army peacetime organization

Post by steppewolf » 14 Sep 2020 09:07

Looks OK, I have some doubts about Graniceri division which was re-organized several times in 1940-1941 but I don't remember exact dates.

I had a file somewhere with units areas of recruitment and I'll post it when I'll find where is it.

CNE503
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Re: Romanian army peacetime organization

Post by CNE503 » 14 Sep 2020 09:42

What looks weird to me is that Armata 1 was so strong and had only a corps HQ to control nine divisions or brigades.
I'm looking for the peacetime organization and garrisons for the period between November 1940 and June 1941. Maybe the two mixed mountain brigades were administratively subordinated to the mountain corps, weren't they?

Yes, Divizia 1 Grăniceri was a quite complex case, especially considering that it was amplified with the creation of Brigadă 2 Mixtă Gardă on October 20th, 1940 (with Regimente 3 et 4 Grăniceri).

Any help/confirmation would be very appreciated.
Thank you in advance.
CNE503
"Sicut Aquila" / "Ils s'instruisent pour vaincre" / "par l'exemple, le coeur et la raison" / "Labor Omnia Vincit"

Sid Guttridge
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Re: Romanian army peacetime organization

Post by Sid Guttridge » 14 Sep 2020 14:05

There were also six reserve divisions numbered erratically between 25 and 35. They were duplicates of some of the active divisions, as they shared the same depots.

Sid.

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steppewolf
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Re: Romanian army peacetime organization

Post by steppewolf » 14 Sep 2020 19:29

Sorry, I can't find the doc I remember with 1940 entire OOB on my external HDD. I remember I also saw it online somewhere but I don't remember where. If I'll found it I'll let you know.

I found some interesting threads/sites from where you can extract info:

https://www.worldwar2.ro/forum/index.ph ... infanterie

http://www.geocities.ws/dangrecu/InfDiv.html

CNE503
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Re: Romanian army peacetime organization

Post by CNE503 » 07 Mar 2021 13:32

*Up*

Any news concerning this topic?
I found the following order of battle for the Romanian army in 1940 (I guess before July 1940) in Nafziger:

I Corps:
- 2nd Infantry Division;
- 3rd Infantry Division;
- 11th Infantry Division;
- 1st Calarasi Cavalry Regiment;
- 1st Heavy Artillery Regiment.

II Corps:
- 9th Infantry Division;
- 10th Infantry Division;
- Guards Infantry Division;
- 4th Calarasi Cavalry Regiment;
- 2nd Heavy Artillery Regiment.

III Corps:
- 12th Infantry Division;
- 15th Infantry Division;
- 21st Infantry Division;
- 8th Calarasi Cavalry Regiment;
- 3rd Heavy Artillery Regiment.

IV Corps:
- 7th Infantry Division;
- 8th Infantry Division;
- 14th Infantry Division;
- 12th Calarasi Cavalry Regiment;
- 4th Heavy Artillery Regiment.

V Corps:
- 5th Infantry Division;
- 6th Infantry Division;
- 13th Infantry Division;
- 6th Calarasi Cavalry Regiment;
- 5th Heavy Artillery Regiment.

VI Corps:
- 16th Infantry Division;
- 17th Infantry Division;
- 18th Infantry Division;
- 20th Infantry Division;
- 7th Calarasi Cavalry Regiment;
- 6th Heavy Artillery Regiment.

VII Corps:
- 1st Infantry Division;
- 4th Infantry Division;
- 19th Infantry Division;
- 10th Calarasi Cavalry Regiment;
- 7th Heavy Artillery Regiment.

Cavalry Corps:
- 1st Cavalry Division;
- 2nd Cavalry Division;
- 3rd Cavalry Division;
- 4th Heavy Artillery Regiment.

Mountain Corps:
- 1st Mountain Division;
2nd Mountain Division;
3rd Mountain Division;
4th Mountain Division.

Independent Formations:
- Armored Division;
- Frontier Division.

No mention of the reserve divisions, and I'm pretty sure that there were no mountain divisions in 1940 (only mixed mountain brigades). Another mistake from Nafziger: he indicated 12th Infantry Division twice (in III Corps and as an independent unit).

If someone has something to share about this, feel free!
Regards,

CNE503
"Sicut Aquila" / "Ils s'instruisent pour vaincre" / "par l'exemple, le coeur et la raison" / "Labor Omnia Vincit"

Sid Guttridge
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Re: Romanian army peacetime organization

Post by Sid Guttridge » 07 Mar 2021 14:05

Hi CN503,

From memory, 12th, 16th and 17th Divisions were dissolved when the territories they were raised in were lost to the USSR and Hungary in 1940. Therefore your assumption that this OB is from before June 1940 appears correct.

I always thought that a division was defined as the smallest military formation which organically contained all major combat arms of service (infantry, artillery, cavalry, engineers, etc.) as part of its establishment. A brigade, by contrast, was meant to contain a single arm of service. However, hybrid "mixed brigades" also seem to have had more than one arm of service in them, though perhaps not the full set. As they already had six infantry battalions with organic artillery battalions and a mounted reconnaissance squadron, it did not take too much to upgrade the mountain brigades to divisions later. A lot of armies were already fielding divisions with six infantry battalions already.

There were definitely six reserve infantry divisions. One of them (I think the 35th) served briefly in Bessarabia in June/July 1941. They were poorly equipped with obsolescent weaponry and manned by older men and not really battleworthy. All seem to have been dissolved to make up the heavy losses in the active infantry divisions at Odessa.

Cheers,

Sid

P.S. The following link gives details of 35th Reserve Division's unfortunate debut: http://www.avalanchepress.com/Kishinev.php
Last edited by Sid Guttridge on 07 Mar 2021 14:20, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Romanian army peacetime organization

Post by Sid Guttridge » 07 Mar 2021 14:16

Hi CN503,

AHF has details of the Romanian Army above in its Axis History Factbook. It includes the Reserve divisions: https://www.axishistory.com/list-all-ca ... ns-romania

Cheers,

Sid.

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Re: Romanian army peacetime organization

Post by CNE503 » 07 Mar 2021 15:09

Hello Sid,

Thank you.
Yes, you're right, 12th, 16th and 17th Infantry Divisions were disbanded after the loss of Bessarabia/northern Bucovina to the Soviets (June-July 1940), and of the major part of Transylvania to Hungarians (September 1940), probably with corps or independent units.

You're right too concerning what was a division when created (by the French in mid-XVIIIth century, according to marshall de Broglie system): the smallest tactical unit with combined arms (at first: infantry, artillery, cavalry, then engineers, signals, etc.). And a brigade was a combination of two regiments of the same arm (at first too). But brigades were sometimes expanded in "mixed" brigades, with different contributing arms. For instance, the German "gemischte Landwehr-Brigaden" of 1914 (two infantry regiments, but also a cavalry squadron and a field artillery battalion). And of course the Romanian mixed mountain brigades in 1941 (two "groups" - Grupuri - of three moutain infantry battalions, a "group" - Grupul - of two to three artillery battalions, either gun or howitzer ones, an engineer battalion, a cavalry squadron, etc.).

Concerning the Romanian reserve divisions, my assessment is that there were more than six of them, at least on paper. It is possible that they were the reserve unit for a whole corps, but I do think that, instead, they were organized similarly to the French army system, in which there was a reserve division for an active one (French concept of "dérivation" - this system evolved in the 1930s and there were actually two reserve divisions for an active one).

I'm especially looking for the garrisons/HQs of the Romanian units in peacetime, so if you have any clue...
Regards,

CNE503
"Sicut Aquila" / "Ils s'instruisent pour vaincre" / "par l'exemple, le coeur et la raison" / "Labor Omnia Vincit"

Sid Guttridge
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Re: Romanian army peacetime organization

Post by Sid Guttridge » 07 Mar 2021 15:55

Hi CNE503,,

Such a list does exist. I saw it some 30 years ago in a German publication from the 1950s that is held in the Imperial War Museum reading Room. It is from this that I recall that the reserve divisions duplicated the regimental depots of some of the active infantry divisions. I may have photocopied it at the time but, if so, the chances of me finding it now are minimal. Sorry.

Have you tried the Romanian Military History Forum: https://www.worldwar2.ro/forum/

Cheers,

Sid.

CNE503
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Re: Romanian army peacetime organization

Post by CNE503 » 07 Mar 2021 16:01

What a bad luck!

Concerning the Romanian forum, yes, I did have: https://www.worldwar2.ro/forum/index.php?showtopic=7549 (I'm Skarn on this one). No answer until now, this forum is... very very calm.

CNE503
"Sicut Aquila" / "Ils s'instruisent pour vaincre" / "par l'exemple, le coeur et la raison" / "Labor Omnia Vincit"

Sid Guttridge
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Re: Romanian army peacetime organization

Post by Sid Guttridge » 07 Mar 2021 18:40

Hi CNE503,

It may be your lucky day!

Firstly, a complete Romanian order of battle for April 1940 is held at the British National Archives at WO/33/1663, However, I only have a brief, two-page, outline of it by someone else which, from my writing all over it, probably contains many mistakes.

Secondly, I have found the photocopies of the 1950s German publication I mentioned above, which gives the Romanian order of battle for 1941. This is much more complete and includes the depot towns.

These were six Reserve divisions in 1941.

25 Res. Div. was a duplicate of 5th Inf. Div. (Its 48th Res. Inf. Regt was a duplicate of 8th Infantry Regt.) (Its 49th Res. Inf. Regt was a duplicate of 9th Infantry Regt.) (Its 72nd Res. Inf. Regt was a duplicate of 32nd Infantry Regt.)

27 Res, Div. was a duplicate of 18th Inf. Div. (74 RIR = 18 IR, 75 RIR = 90 IR, 76 RIR = 92 IR)

30 Res, Div. was a duplicate of 2nd Inf. Div. (41 RIR = 1 IR, 66 RIR = 26 IR, 71 RIR = 31 IR)

31 Res, Div. was a duplicate of 11th Inf. Div. (42 RIR = 2 IR, 43 RIR = 3 IR, 59 RIR = 19 IR)

32 Res, Div. was a duplicate of 10th Inf. Div. (46 RIR = 23 IR, 73 RIR = 33 IR, 78 RIR = 38 IR)

35 Res, Div. was a duplicate of 6th Inf. Div. (50 RIR = 10 IR, 55 RIR = 15 IR, 67 RIR = 27 IR)


25th Reserve Infantry Division had 61st Reserve Artillery Regiment from Buzau and 62nd Reserve Artillery Regiment from R. Sarat

27th Reserve Infantry Division had 67th Reserve Artillery Regiment from Sibiu and 68th Reserve Artillery Regiment from Sibiu

30th Reserve Infantry Division had 51st Reserve Artillery Regiment from Craiova and 52nd Reserve Artillery Regiment from Craiova

31st Reserve Infantry Division had 53rd Reserve Artillery Regiment from Slatina and 54th Reserve Artillery Regiment from Slatina

32nd Reserve Infantry Division had 55th Reserve Artillery Regiment from Braila and 56th Reserve Artillery Regiment from Calarasi

35th Reserve Infantry Division had 63rd Reserve Artillery Regiment from Focsani and 64th Reserve Artillery Regiment from Bacau


51 RAR = 9 AR
52 RAR = 14 AR
53 RAR = 21 AR
54 RAR = 26 AR
55 AR = 3 AR
56 RAR = 20 AR
61 RAR = 7 AR
62 RAR = 28 AR
63 RAR = 11 AR
64 RAR = 16 AR
67 RAR = 35 AR
68 RAR = 36 AR

Note: The German original describes the artillery of the Reserve divisions as "Artillerie-Einheiten", but the Active divisions' artillery are described as "Feld-Artillerie-Regt." I presume this means that the Reserve Artillery units were not at full regimental strength.

I hope you understand my shorthand above.

Cheers,

Sid.

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Re: Romanian army peacetime organization

Post by CNE503 » 07 Mar 2021 19:00

Hello Sid,

That's fantastic! Thank you for sharing!
Would it be possible to have access to the photocopies you mentioned (the ones that state where were the depot towns)?

Indeed, I feel lucky today!
Best regards,
CNE503
"Sicut Aquila" / "Ils s'instruisent pour vaincre" / "par l'exemple, le coeur et la raison" / "Labor Omnia Vincit"

Sid Guttridge
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Re: Romanian army peacetime organization

Post by Sid Guttridge » 07 Mar 2021 19:17

Hi CNE503,

It certainly would be.

I am a bit old school. I can post photocopies to you, if you are prepared to send me a postal address by PM.

Cheers,

Sid.

CNE503
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Re: Romanian army peacetime organization

Post by CNE503 » 07 Mar 2021 20:00

With a closer look, I found that:
- I Corps had two reserve divisions (30th and 31st);
- V Corps had two reserve divisions (25th and 35th);
- II Corps had only one reserve division (32nd);
- VI Corps had only one reserve division (27th);
- III, IV and VII Corps had no reserve division at all.

With other clues (the gaps in the artillery regiments numerotation, for instance, because your list doesn't mention any regiment numbered 57, 58, 59, 60, 65 and 66), it leads me to think that there were other reserve divisions in these corps areas (and possibly in II and VI Corps areas too).

CNE503
Last edited by CNE503 on 07 Mar 2021 20:19, edited 1 time in total.
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