Did Miklos Horthy ever consider the idea of a Hapsburg restoration in Hungary after his death?

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Did Miklos Horthy ever consider the idea of a Hapsburg restoration in Hungary after his death?

Post by Futurist » 08 Dec 2020 05:37

Did Miklos Horthy ever consider the idea of a Hapsburg restoration in Hungary after his death? I'm thinking of something similar to what Francisco Franco successfully pulled off in Spain after his own death, but with the Spanish Bourbons. Such a move on Horthy's part would lend the Hungarian regime greater legitimacy after his death--had he actually remained in power until that point in time, which would have been very possible without World War II, or with World War II but without the Fall of France--and might have also eventually (as in, a couple of decades down the line) been supported by (non-Communist) Czechoslovakia, Romania, and Yugoslavia (as in, the Little Entente countries) had whatever Hapsburg been put as the ruler of Hungary been willing to renounce all future Hungarian territorial claims on all of Hungary's neighbors. After all, if Horthy would have managed to remain in power until his death in 1957, then memories of World War I would have already faded a bit by then.

Anyway, what do you think?

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Re: Did Miklos Horthy ever consider the idea of a Hapsburg restoration in Hungary after his death?

Post by wm » 08 Dec 2020 09:37

The Czechs threatened the weakened and defenseless Hungary with war if that would have been attempted:
Beneš's representative in Budapest made almost daily appearances at the Ministry for Foreign Affairs to threaten reprisals should the King prolong his stay on Hungarian territory. The final demarche was made collectively by the Great Powers. Their representatives, upon instructions of the Allied Ambassadorial Conference in Paris, delivered a joint Note which referred to the declaration of February 2nd, 1920, and called attention to the "serious consequences" that would follow should the Hungarian Government not take active measures to prevent any attempts at restoration.
As yet, the Friedrich Government had not been recognized by the Allies. Archduke Joseph's abdication from his position as Regent at the end of August had been due to direct Allied intervention; upon the insistence of Beneš, who had stated in a letter to the Paris Peace Conference that a Habsburg as Regent was bound ultimately to lead to a restoration of the monarchy, which would be regarded by the Czechoslovak Republic as a direct menace to its existence, corresponding instructions had been drawn up which had to be implemented by the Military Mission.
Memoirs of Admiral Nicholas Horthy Regent of Hungary by Nicholas Horthy

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Re: Did Miklos Horthy ever consider the idea of a Hapsburg restoration in Hungary after his death?

Post by McGuba » 08 Dec 2020 14:43

In addition to what "wm" wrote, Horthy also made his eldest son the deputy regent in 1942, in effect his successor in case he dies, creating a position that did not exist before. So it looks like he was more interested in preserving his bloodline then handing back the power to the Hapsburgs after his death. Tragically, the deputy regent died in the same year when he crashed in his fighter plane on the Eastern Front.

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Re: Did Miklos Horthy ever consider the idea of a Hapsburg restoration in Hungary after his death?

Post by Peter89 » 08 Dec 2020 21:11

Please read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_I ... the_throne

...and close the thread in abscence of historical reality.
"Everything remained theory and hypothesis. On paper, in his plans, in his head, he juggled with Geschwaders and Divisions, while in reality there were really only makeshift squadrons at his disposal."

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Re: Did Miklos Horthy ever consider the idea of a Hapsburg restoration in Hungary after his death?

Post by Futurist » 08 Dec 2020 23:04

wm wrote:
08 Dec 2020 09:37
The Czechs threatened the weakened and defenseless Hungary with war if that would have been attempted:
Beneš's representative in Budapest made almost daily appearances at the Ministry for Foreign Affairs to threaten reprisals should the King prolong his stay on Hungarian territory. The final demarche was made collectively by the Great Powers. Their representatives, upon instructions of the Allied Ambassadorial Conference in Paris, delivered a joint Note which referred to the declaration of February 2nd, 1920, and called attention to the "serious consequences" that would follow should the Hungarian Government not take active measures to prevent any attempts at restoration.
As yet, the Friedrich Government had not been recognized by the Allies. Archduke Joseph's abdication from his position as Regent at the end of August had been due to direct Allied intervention; upon the insistence of Beneš, who had stated in a letter to the Paris Peace Conference that a Habsburg as Regent was bound ultimately to lead to a restoration of the monarchy, which would be regarded by the Czechoslovak Republic as a direct menace to its existence, corresponding instructions had been drawn up which had to be implemented by the Military Mission.
Memoirs of Admiral Nicholas Horthy Regent of Hungary by Nicholas Horthy
Yes, I am well-aware of that. However, this was back in 1920 whereas I was thinking of the Little Entente's views in regards to this possibly moderating over time. Horthy did live for an additional 37 years after 1920 and ruled for an additional 24 of them, after all.

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Re: Did Miklos Horthy ever consider the idea of a Hapsburg restoration in Hungary after his death?

Post by Futurist » 08 Dec 2020 23:06

Peter89 wrote:
08 Dec 2020 21:11
Please read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_I ... the_throne

...and close the thread in abscence of historical reality.
That's the thing, though--this occurred right after WWI, when memories of this was were still fresh. However, political realities can change. For instance, the Anglo-French refused to allow a German union with Austria and the Sudetenland in 1918-1919 and yet were willing to allow this in 1938.

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Re: Did Miklos Horthy ever consider the idea of a Hapsburg restoration in Hungary after his death?

Post by Futurist » 08 Dec 2020 23:06

McGuba wrote:
08 Dec 2020 14:43
In addition to what "wm" wrote, Horthy also made his eldest son the deputy regent in 1942, in effect his successor in case he dies, creating a position that did not exist before. So it looks like he was more interested in preserving his bloodline then handing back the power to the Hapsburgs after his death. Tragically, the deputy regent died in the same year when he crashed in his fighter plane on the Eastern Front.
Interesting. Creating a family line of regents in a kingdom without a king descended from an admiral even though Hungary no longer had either a navy or a coastline! :D

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Re: Did Miklos Horthy ever consider the idea of a Hapsburg restoration in Hungary after his death?

Post by Futurist » 08 Dec 2020 23:09

Futurist wrote:
08 Dec 2020 23:06
Peter89 wrote:
08 Dec 2020 21:11
Please read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_I ... the_throne

...and close the thread in abscence of historical reality.
That's the thing, though--this occurred right after WWI, when memories of this was were still fresh. However, political realities can change. For instance, the Anglo-French refused to allow a German union with Austria and the Sudetenland in 1918-1919 and yet were willing to allow this in 1938.
Similarly, a Hohenzollern restoration in Germany (albeit under someone other than either the former German Kaiser Wilhelm II or his son the former German Crown Prince Wilhelm) might have been more feasible in the 1930s sans Hitler than it would have been in, say, 1920.

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Re: Did Miklos Horthy ever consider the idea of a Hapsburg restoration in Hungary after his death?

Post by Sid Guttridge » 09 Dec 2020 00:05

Hi Futurist,

Given that Horthy styled himself "Regent", one would have to wonder Regent for whom, if not the Hapsburgs? Were there Hungarian royal contenders?

I recall my mother saying that Horthy had several beautiful daughters who he tried to marry off to various royal families. I think King Zog of Albania was one of the possibilities. If so, Horthy may have been aiming higher than that his family should just keep the seat warm for the Hapsburgs. In the end none married royalty, though Zog did marry another Hungarian aristocrat.

Cheers,

Sid.

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Re: Did Miklos Horthy ever consider the idea of a Hapsburg restoration in Hungary after his death?

Post by wm » 09 Dec 2020 00:15

This son is even more friendly to the Jews than Horthy himself.
Joseph Goebbels. February 4h, 1942
Last edited by wm on 09 Dec 2020 00:21, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Did Miklos Horthy ever consider the idea of a Hapsburg restoration in Hungary after his death?

Post by Futurist » 09 Dec 2020 00:16

Sid Guttridge wrote:
09 Dec 2020 00:05
Hi Futurist,

Given that Horthy styled himself "Regent", one would have to wonder Regent for whom, if not the Hapsburgs? Were there Hungarian royal contenders?

I recall my mother saying that Horthy had several beautiful daughters who he tried to marry off to various royal families. I think King Zog of Albania was one of the possibilities. If so, Horthy may have been aiming higher than that his family should just keep the seat warm for the Hapsburgs. In the end none married royalty, though Zog did marry another Hungarian aristocrat.

Cheers,

Sid.
Yeah, it's sort of weird, isn't it? Horthy declared himself Regent without either creating his own royal dynasty (like Napoleon did) or paving the way for any royal house--whether the Hapsburgs or anyone else--to ever acquire the Hungarian throne at some future point in time.

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Re: Did Miklos Horthy ever consider the idea of a Hapsburg restoration in Hungary after his death?

Post by Futurist » 09 Dec 2020 00:17

wm wrote:
09 Dec 2020 00:15
This son is even more friendly to the Jews that Horthy himself.
Joseph Goebbels. February 4h, 1942
"That Horthy himself" or "than Horthy himself"?

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Re: Did Miklos Horthy ever consider the idea of a Hapsburg restoration in Hungary after his death?

Post by wm » 09 Dec 2020 00:23

Than. I don't know why I pay serious money for the artificial intelligence-based Grammarly. Artificial intelligence is a scam.

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Re: Did Miklos Horthy ever consider the idea of a Hapsburg restoration in Hungary after his death?

Post by Peter89 » 09 Dec 2020 06:36

Yes, there were contenders for the "throne" and the search for a new king entertained most of Hungary in interwar years.

However, one must note that the modern Hungary was (and is) swinging between the republic and the kingdom. The issue is further complicated by the Szent Korona (Holy Crown) that was (and for many, is) a personified object, so to speak.

Therefore, Hungary has a tradition to have a kingdom without a king; the Szent Korona holifies the rule of any regent.

Horthy wasn't and couldn't be crowned because he was a protestant.

There is a library of literature of the struggle for a king in Hungary, and the struggle against the Habsburgs, the battle of the symbols between the republic and kingdom.

The answer for the topic is simply no.
"Everything remained theory and hypothesis. On paper, in his plans, in his head, he juggled with Geschwaders and Divisions, while in reality there were really only makeshift squadrons at his disposal."

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Re: Did Miklos Horthy ever consider the idea of a Hapsburg restoration in Hungary after his death?

Post by Futurist » 21 Dec 2020 00:16

Could Horthy have converted to Catholicism?

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