Hungarian air force questions

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TISO
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Hungarian air force questions

Post by TISO » 16 Feb 2021 22:21

I'm in need of some hungarian air force expert help here.

I have a couple of question RE hungarian Air force second deployment to the eastern front.
I was doing some research on use of Caproni Ca.135bis/U by Hungarians on the eastern front and trying to expand my knowledge on the topic a bit.
Might just post it here when i make sense of the mess.

Problem:
I have a bit of conflicting information regarding Hunagarian air force organisation during fighting in the SSSR
My primary source is:
1. The Royal Hungarian Army 1920-1945 Volume 1 – Organisation and History by Leo W.G. Niehorster (airforce is dealt with on pages 170-177) - great source on organisation, reorganisations, OBB's (can post link to the pdf if moderators allow)

Secondary source:
2. Hungarian eagles Magyar Királyi Honvéd Légierő 1920-1945 (Hikoki publications) by Gyula Sárhidai (Author), Viktor Kozlik (Author), Győgy Punka (Author, Illustrator)


1. Need help with a date:
During second deployment from late june 1942 Niehorster says that 1. Air force Group was renamed into 2. Hungarian Air Brigade on 21th of June 1942 just before deploying to the SSSR.
Source 2 says thet on 15th of October 1942 1. Air Division was renamed into 2. Air Brigade. Interestingly source 2 also mentions that newly formed 2. Air Brigade went east in late june with Hungarian 2.Army but in text constantly refers to the unit as 1.Air division.
Which date is correct?

2. Need some help to make sense of this mess or which Ca.135bis units were acctualy present on eastern front during second deployment:
Regarding Caproni units during second deployment june-september (november) 1942:
Nierhorster states that 4./6 and 4./7 squdrons were only bomber units (4./III Group i.e. III Group of 4.Bomber regiment) and were sent back to hungary in september but also states that 4./1 was sent back to Hungary in mid november (last op being on 31th of October). He does not include 4./1 squadron or its 4./I Group into his OBB at all neither does it mention anywhere axcept at the november return.

Source 2 states that 4./1 “Boszorkány” (Witch) squadron was sent east on 24th of june with 7 planes and 4 planes that followed a couple of days later. Few lines later when talking about other units (on page 21) it states:
"Certanly 12 He-46 aircraft arrived on 22nd of june but 9 Caproni Ca.135 bomber that arrived earlier lost one of their number when undercaridge broke on landing and the aircraft became unusable"
Source only talks about 4./1 in RE Capronis and doesn't mention 4./6 and 4./7 at all. It says that Capronis were sent home in september and 4./1 landed in Hungary on 15th of November 1942 losing last plane with entire crew due explosion on 31th of october on last raid.

Peter89
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Re: Hungarian air force questions

Post by Peter89 » 05 Mar 2021 05:31

You might try to ask Dénes memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=187
"Everything remained theory and hypothesis. On paper, in his plans, in his head, he juggled with Geschwaders and Divisions, while in reality there were really only makeshift squadrons at his disposal."

Sid Guttridge
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Re: Hungarian air force questions

Post by Sid Guttridge » 05 Mar 2021 17:48

Yup, Denes Bernad is your man for this.

Sid

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TISO
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Location: Slovenia - vojvodina Å tajerska

Re: Hungarian air force questions

Post by TISO » 05 Mar 2021 20:52

Thanks

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